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Early New Order releases

New Wave/Punk music, culture, genres, memories. '80s revivalism and other relevant topics.

Early New Order releases

Postby Michael Bully » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:58 am

Was listening to 'Movement' (1981) again for the first time in years and impressed . It was bound to be extremely difficult for the band to start recording after Ian Curtis' death and the huge weight of expectation placed upon them following the end of Joy Division and the start of New Order. The band refused to give interviews to the main music press and were not interested in playing conventional tours as such which generated its own sense of mystery.
The combination of New Wave with some Electro pop and quite bleak lyrics made 'Movement' a release worth listening.
The single 'Everything's Gone Green' from the very end of 1981, was quite unexpected, being an out and out dance track, not included on 'Movement' and probably wouldn't have fitted in .
Anyone else listening to early New Order ?
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Re: Early New Order releases

Postby bpdp3 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:07 pm

Not listening currently, but it's a well I go back to fairly regularly. This 1981 material you're mentionong is really good, but also a little tentative.. still finding their footing post-ian Curtis I imagine.

What's amazing to me is how this musical unit grows from say 1979 to 1983. To get from the "closer" album to 'blue Monday' in just 3 years is a pretty big aesthetic leap. Would/could they have made it with Curtis is the eternal unanswerable question.

Interesting how early on they keep these dance tracks off the albums..(i.e. Gone green and blue Monday)!
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Re: Early New Order releases

Postby q89747 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:18 pm

What's amazing to me is how this musical unit grows from say 1979 to 1983. To get from the "closer" album to 'blue Monday' in just 3 years is a pretty big aesthetic leap. Would/could they have made it with Curtis is the eternal unanswerable question.


There's a quote from one of them in the booklet that comes with the Heart & Soul box set that says Ian was down with synthesizers, drum machines etc and that JD was already headed in that direction regardless.
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Re: Early New Order releases

Postby Michael Bully » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:18 am

I am sure that I read somewhere that Bernard Sumner had already got hold of a synthesizer during the days of Joy Division. Also at the time of 'Unknown Pleasures' the band were interested in electronic sampling. If Ian had survived, the band would probably have gone more into electronics and experimentation, Ian wouldn't have been able to have taken the pressure of regular touring.
Some of 'Movement' is quite synth based -such as 'Truth' and 'Senses' . 'Temptation' from 1982 was also an electronic single from New Order which showed the direction they were heading, then in the following year came 'Blue Monday' which was massive.
And the band agreed to start talking to the music press. From what I remember New Order mentioned that they had started to visit gay clubs to hear the music....certainly it's easy to hear Sylvester's influence on 'Blue Monday'.
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Re: Early New Order releases

Postby q89747 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:12 am

From what I remember New Order mentioned that they had started to visit gay clubs to hear the music....certainly it's easy to hear Sylvester's influence on 'Blue Monday'.


... not to mention 'Our Love' by Donna Summer.
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Re: Early New Order releases

Postby Michael Bully » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:04 am

q89747 wrote:
... not to mention 'Our Love' by Donna Summer.



Thanks for directing me to 'Our Love' ..... hadn't heard it before Indeed , could well have influenced both 'Temptation' and ' Blue Monday' , being released in 1979.
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Re: Early New Order releases

Postby swerve » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:39 am

According to Bernard Sumner, "Blue Monday" was influenced by four songs: the arrangement came from "Dirty Talk", by Klein + M.B.O.; the signature bassline with octaves came from Sylvester's disco classic, "You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real)"; the house beat came from "Our Love", by Donna Summer; and the long keyboard pad on the intro and outro was sampled from the Kraftwerk song "Uranium", from the Radio-Activity album.
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Re: Early New Order releases

Postby Michael Bully » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:32 am

Thanks for the information, so 'Blue Monday' was quite a combination of influences. It was a combination of 'Blue Monday's success and New Order's decision to start engaging with the media again showed that the group were emerging from Joy Division 's legacy and pursuing their own course as it were. They lost some Joy Division fans but were also generating more interest from people who saw New Order in their own right.
Personally I liked the follow up to 'Blue Monday' -'Confusion' a great deal.


swerve wrote:According to Bernard Sumner, "Blue Monday" was influenced by four songs: the arrangement came from "Dirty Talk", by Klein + M.B.O.; the signature bassline with octaves came from Sylvester's disco classic, "You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real)"; the house beat came from "Our Love", by Donna Summer; and the long keyboard pad on the intro and outro was sampled from the Kraftwerk song "Uranium", from the Radio-Activity album.
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Re: Early New Order releases

Postby Michael Bully » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:57 pm

Thought that this was relevant

Hooky on the recording of 'Closer' :And what direction Joy Division would have taken if Ian Curtis had lived. Also next video in the sequence of interview is on the recording of 'Movement'. ......and the first New Order visit to the USA and elsewhere to audiences who wanted Joy Division numbers. Interesting that Hooky maintains that the two groups had different fans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY_Z62mHB2U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN2pXM3NA_o&t=13s
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Re: Early New Order releases

Postby Michael Bully » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:20 pm

In 1982 New Order recorded a four track session for British DJ John Peel . Amongst them was a surprising cover version of Roots Reggae singer Keith Hudson 's ' Turn The Heater On' , apparently one of Ian Curtis' favourite songs. The session was released on vinyl in 1984.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYsRIdB3sc8
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Re: Early New Order releases

Postby bpdp3 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:08 pm

Oh... wow. I've never heard 'turn the heater on' and I absolutely love it. Even better knowing it's a tribute to Curtis. Thanks so much for sharing this really-- this is the nicest most unexpected track I've heard in a while. This I'll hunt down.
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Re: Early New Order releases

Postby Michael Bully » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:05 am

Indeed, I liked the track a lot when it was first performed on said John Peel session. Still sounds good now. A friend of mine taped all four tracks from the radio. The session also found its way on to various bootlegs, so it was probably a good idea to officially release it on vinyl and at least make sure all artists got appropriate royalties.

The Keith Hudson original can be found on Youtube.




bpdp3 wrote:Oh... wow. I've never heard 'turn the heater on' and I absolutely love it. Even better knowing it's a tribute to Curtis. Thanks so much for sharing this really-- this is the nicest most unexpected track I've heard in a while. This I'll hunt down.
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Re: Early New Order releases

Postby Michael Bully » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:07 pm

One much overlooked New Order electronic track was 'Hurt' , originally the B side of 'Temptation' from 12". Played it a great deal at the time and still sounds good.
Easily see the influence of High Energy and the likes of Sylvester .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY3WNEsb3DE
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Re: Early New Order releases

Postby blade69 » Tue May 08, 2018 7:30 am

My appreciation for early New Order has grown. I like Movement a lot more than I used to. I firend of mine said that Barney hadn't found his voice yet, and I think she's exactly right. Even so, this album is a nice bridge between Joy Division and later New Order work. It almost sounds like a mix between the two. Now that I can look up lyrics online, that has also increased my appreciation of their early stuff, because I had trouble understanding what Barney was saying in those early songs. I like other early stuff like "Mesh" and Hurt" more than I used to also. Even so, their 1983-1989 stuff is by far my favorite New Order.
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Re: Early New Order releases

Postby Michael Bully » Mon May 21, 2018 11:39 am

I liked 'Movement' a great deal when it came out. The pressure placed on New Order after Ian's death was massive. Joy Division's releases were selling well but nobody sure what the rest of the group -with Gillian on keyboards and guitar -would sound like. It could have all failed . After all, The Doors released two further albums after Jim Morrison's death, which have just faded into obscurity. 'Movement' got mixed reviews.

I think that New Order survived as the rest of the band were determined to carry on, Gillian seemed to really take to keyboards and the new technology which Bernard and Steven were also keen to experiment with . Plus Factory Records gave the band such artistic control . After 'Movement' at the end of 1981, New Order only released 'Temptation' in 1982. They wouldn't give interviews to the mainstream media, would only play short sets, refused to play Joy Division numbers. I doubt many other record companies would have been so understanding. Then of course 'Blue Monday' , 'Power Corruption and Lies' album, in the Spring of 1983 ,saw a change. The band agreed to give interviews, play on television, perform longer tour sets, and collaborated with Arthur Baker on 'Confusion' .
Talking of 'Confusion', I bought it at the time but don't think that it has aged so well. But then again it was 35 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_L_-CKg6pw
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