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RIP Mark Hollis (Talk Talk)


Re: RIP Mark Hollis (Talk Talk)

Postby ABOATES » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:00 am

Passing_Stranger wrote:To think people come to a forum called New Wave Outpost and in all seriousness rant about Talk Talk's "New Wave" albums being crap and unworthy and "cheesy" (?) and "not my thing", while boasting about their avant garde phase being "masterpieces" (sic!)... I know rationality is not one of the inherent human features but such behaviour never fails to confuse me.


So...by your logic... if I like New Wave, I HAVE to like the first two albums because they are New Wave. So...you like every New Wave record ever just the same? Do you like Speak and Spell as much as Black Celebration? If so, in my mind, you lack some judgement skills my friend.

No question, Laughing Stock is not New Wave at all...you only like New Wave music...nothing else?

Mark Hollis dies and at least half of the comments on this forum go out of their way to point out how horrible his last three records were...I guess...in keeping w your comments because they weren't New Wave...

So, my point is...Oh...I didn't realize that most of the folks on this forum ONLY like synth-based/dance music from 1980 - 1982. I am surprised by the lack of love for the last three records and I realize now that this forum is not for me because of that. Does that makes sense?

btw Over on the Steve Hoffman forum, all they are talking about is how brilliant the last three records were. Hardly any mention of It's My Life at all. I guess they are just weirdoes over there. Or maybe they aren't legit New Wave fans. Again, enjoy your When in Rome 12" dance remixes. They are not my thing.
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Re: RIP Mark Hollis (Talk Talk)

Postby ABOATES » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:19 am

negative1 wrote:i wouldn't be that harsh about talking about mark hollis solo album, or the last 2 talk talk albums.

the point is, if you started with the band in the early 80's, that what influenced you, and thats what made the impression.

with groups celebrating their 30th and 40th anniversaries, this is what a lot of people remembered, and enjoyed.

yes, groups move on, times change, and eras and musical styles change, i never expected talk talk to keep making
the same music on every album, especially since the first 3, although the might have a few similarities for some
tracks, are completely different. colour of spring is very richly textured, and thoughtful album, but still has
accessible songs, and there were plenty of releases and remixes.

if you happened to catch talk talk in the 90's as your starting point, then of course your impression would
be completely different, and you would evaluate them differently. yes, some people did appreciate the
change in direction, and welcomed the change of pace an style.

i bought all the singles, and both albums, spirit of eden and laughingstock the day they came out, as imports.
i listened to every track, and after about a week, probably didn't listen to either one until several years later.
i also bought missing pieces, all the compilations, and then the mark hollis solo album after awhile from when
it was released. i listened to it a few times, and probably haven't listened to it again.

if people think that those are the pinnacle of their sound, and representative of the band, i feel sorry for them,
that they cant enjoy a time when the band made other styles that were catchy, or upbeat, and melodic for
many many people. sure a lot of cheesy music falls into this category, but even in the first 2 albums, there's
depth and darkness, along with the catchy more upbeat songs.

if you come to the new wave complex and expect people to think that the tracks are terrible, then maybe
you need to go to the 90's alternative experimental forum where everybody will think that the last few
albums from them were indeed great. that's not going to happen here.

we can criticize mark's music all we want, it doesn't mean we hate mark, or him as a person, he's the one
that made us like the band in the first place. don't be so defensive, if you can't see that we appreciate his
musical contributions regardless of what we think of it.

later
-1

I saw Devo live in 1980. Talking Heads in 83. I was there. I did not first hear Talk Talk in the 90s. I remember clearly when their first album came out and like most people at the time, thought it sucked. Revisionist history doesn't change reality. Don't misunderstand me... of course you can like whatever music you like...don't care...not my business... but I am saying, from my perspective if you think the best Talk Talk work was their first two records, I don't agree with you, i think you are wrong, and because those two albums sound very much like most of the other albums viewed positively around here, that perhaps the New Wave moniker is more of an albatross around here than an exciting genre description.
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Re: RIP Mark Hollis (Talk Talk)

Postby Sean » Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:45 am

ABOATES, I am not sure why you think we all just like synth based music from 1980-82. If you read this forum enough, you know that is not the case. It is a "New Wave" forum and the people in here like what we all somewhat mutually agree is New Wave. Everyone here listens to other stuff too, I'm sure of it. Now first of all, the highest respects to Mark Hollis. I don't think anyone here is specifically making any attacks to Mark. We all love him and I think most of us here love him and Talk Talk for the first three albums, the ones that got us all hooked. The latter albums were definitely not "New Wave" and just not the Talk Talk that most of us wish was heading towards. The albums aren't bad, they just aren't what most of us headed out to buy. Let's take Depeche Mode, I can't get into most of their albums after "Ultra". There are a few songs that I enjoy here and there but the albums seem to not attract me as much anymore. That doesn't make me like Depeche Mode less as a band and that doesn't mean I am opening up my horizons to the new direction they moved into. I've tried and like with Talk Talk, I tried many many many times.
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Re: RIP Mark Hollis (Talk Talk)

Postby ABOATES » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:19 pm

I actually agree w you about DM completely...huge DM fan...can't stand much of their work post Ultra either...after Alan left.
Last edited by ABOATES on Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RIP Mark Hollis (Talk Talk)

Postby Passing_Stranger » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:41 pm

Wa-hey ABOATES, me ol' mate, long time no see! 'Twas gettin' pretty stale without your wisdom here, and no mistake! So nice to hear that you saw Devo in 1980, I envy you, I really do - wasn't even born yet myself and when I finally did it was on the wrong side of the globe! :lol: I wonder did you, by any chance, also happen to hear what they sang about? Particularly "Freedom of Choice", that song, my man, ring any bells? Yeah, you got that right, that's about people deciding for themselves and not following what they're being told.

Well, using this freedom, my choice is to politely ignore last TT records while enjoying the first two immensely. Nothing will change that in foreseeable future - let me tell you, your comments will be the last in line in any case. And no, they don't make sense at all on any level. Want to get your kicks out of the alleged brilliance of later TT - go to Steve Hoffman forum (whatever it is) instead of haunting these shores, pushing your faith in people's faces. Now seriously, that really is some truly irrational behaviour. As for those albums being your desert island discs - well, wouldn't want to be on the same island as you. I prefer much more upbeat and motivating soundtrack to being stuck alone on some windswept piece of rock and sand surrounded by salty water.

Now to your "look at what other people say on search engines" - what ridiculous argument! What difference does it make? Will it make me rethink? No. And not only because these "people" are music writers/journalists who most of the time are told to write things like that by editorial policy. Firstly it's because I myself think the first two TT albums are great (and the third so-so, but listenable when I'm in the mood), I get pleasure from hearing them. You say I'm wrong? But who are you to pass the judgement?! :shock:

And let me add one crucial thing - the very purpose of New Wave as a movement was to let people know that it's them who should decide what they like or not. Mark himself alluded to that, saying that he's not going to explain his music - "you get it or you don't, there's nothing I can do about it". He had intelligence, style and class not to force his art down people's throats - unlike, seemingly, quite a few of his rabid fanatics who seem all too eager to declare their worldview as ultimate. That's what always pushed me away from fanaticism of any kind - it's like a sect.

Oh well, got that off my chest, now I'm off to re-listen to "The Party's Over" - not long ago I made my own special deluxe edition all from vinyl rips and "Strike up the band" sounds especially marvelous! Can't wait! :D

P.S. By the way, "Speak & Spell" to me is vastly superior to "Back Celeration". The latter's heavy-handed doom'n'gloom was, I admit, kind of impressive at first but got boring pretty quickly. In fact I seldom listen to this band - and its rabid fanatics played a part in my decision. Never wanted to be a part of a single- (and simple-) minded gang, you see.
Last edited by Passing_Stranger on Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RIP Mark Hollis (Talk Talk)

Postby ABOATES » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:28 pm

The Party's Over > Spirit of Eden
Quiet Life > Secrets of the Beehive
Speak and Spell > Black Celebration

This forum/me = Nothing at all in common


*btw I own all six of those albums and like them. But if you think Speak and Spell is better than Black Celebration I am saying to you that we do not have much in common. That's all...I thought there would be a LOT of similar minded folks who appreciated good music here. Apparently it is mainly folks that just like early 80's dance pop...like I said...my bad. Obviously, I am in the wrong place. It's fine, I just didn't realize that until now. I got it and it would be silly for me to post my interests here because apparently no one else here is into any type of music other than a very strict definition of New Wave music. I seem to remember somebody posted something about The Cars last year and a big fight broke out about whether they even "qualified" as New Wave!!! I should have known then how inane this forum is. Anyway..best to you.

"And let me add one crucial thing - the very purpose of New Wave as a movement was to let people know that it's them who should decide what they like or not. Mark himself alluded to that, saying that he's not going to explain his music - "you get it or you don't, there's nothing I can do about it". He had intelligence, style and class not to force his art down people's throats - unlike, seemingly, quite a few of his rabid fanatics who seem all too eager to declare their worldview as ultimate. That's what always pushed me away from fanaticism of any kind - it's like a sect."
I have no idea what you are getting at here. Because I am flabbergasted that the majority of postings on a New Wave site three days after Mark Hollis' death are dogging on his most heralded work and talking about how bad his voice was and he was a "starving artist" type etc etc and I express my feelings about the distasteful comments and how much I disagree with you about those albums I am now officially a member of a cult?! WTH man...this place is truly daft... You are not allowed to disagree with us...up yours buddy!
Last edited by ABOATES on Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: RIP Mark Hollis (Talk Talk)

Postby ABOATES » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:34 pm

"Nothing will change that"

right... I think that should be the motto of this site.
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Re: RIP Mark Hollis (Talk Talk)

Postby moni » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:37 pm

ABOATES wrote:The Party's Over > Spirit of Eden
Quiet Life > Secrets of the Beehive
Speak and Spell > Black Celebration

This forum/me = Nothing at all in common




Why do you persist in posting here if that's how you feel ?
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Re: RIP Mark Hollis (Talk Talk)

Postby ABOATES » Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:11 pm

ABOATES
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Re: RIP Mark Hollis (Talk Talk)

Postby ABOATES » Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:42 pm

ABOATES
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Re: RIP Mark Hollis (Talk Talk)

Postby Last Film Star » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:40 pm

The Party's Over is, was and always will be my favorite TT album. Have You Heard The News and the title track are classics.
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Re: RIP Mark Hollis (Talk Talk)

Postby Last Film Star » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:49 pm

ABOATES wrote:IMO Spirit of Eden and Laughing Stock are two of the most important, amazing, genre-bending/creating albums of all-time. Mark will be missed for sure. I secretly hoped that he would record again. I guess not. I should add to the list of amazing albums his 1998 solo record as well. The first two albums did nothing at all for me. Duran Duran wannabees that they were... Honestly, to read form a previous forum member that Spirit of Eden and Laughing Stock are a waste of time pretty much confirms what I already knew...I really don't have much in common with the majority of the folks that post here and I should seek out another site. I cannot relate at all with someone that would prefer The Party's Over to Laughing Stock! WTH???!!!! :shock:


LOL you'll be missed
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