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Laserdisc

Discussions about the golden age of MTV and music videos, directors, techniques, DVD releases, etc.

Postby elviscaprice » Sat May 15, 2010 1:13 pm

Eighties, I've tossed and turned on this transfer issue from Laserdisc or even VHS for that matter.
Here is my dilemma:
What am I cutting these videos for? For club, it's VJ material, therefore I am usually playing in stereo sound. The best sound in stereo will suffice. Video, depends on the visual equipement.
With that in mind, how do I achieve the best results for this setting?
1. Record from a decent laserdisc player to a decent DVD recorder.
OR
2. Try and achieve lossless results with alot of time equipement directly to the harddrive. What do I gain for the source I intend to use it for? My conclusion, not a whole lot, to get AC3 sound, when I intend to VJ in stereo? A better picture, only to spend alot of time and money to see it remastered and released on DVD in the near future. Which beats any laserdisc recording even if lossless.
Let alone the material I desire to add to my collection is usually in Stereo and not digital. If it's digital it probably will be released soon on DVD.
Therefore I can't justify the cost and time involved with trying to capture the laserdisc in lossless format.

My personal dilemma, would love to become acquinted in more detail with film editing in general but I can see that the time and commitment are so great that I will need to put this aside for the moment.
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Postby elviscaprice » Sat May 15, 2010 5:42 pm

Plastic, in regards to your remarks concerning PAL & NTSC formats. My guess for the different formats (PAL 24 frames per second, and NTSC at 29.97 frames per second) is that to limit illegal sales or copying of copyrighted material from one region to another. An older safeguard put into place. As far as getting a good transfer from one format to the other, I think one would have to go through the painstaking process of breaking the project down into lossless formats as we are talking about, then one would be able to add wichever codec or format/speed that they desire.

Interesting though, I've never tried changing a project from NTSC to PAL, must be the way their woven together that doesn't allow one to slow down the material into PAL format, but easily speed it up, as to not introduce any frame speed issues.

Don't understand why you would want to change from one format to another, unless making copies for others with only a PAL DVD player.

The only reason I used to change from PAL VHS to NTSC DVD was that I didn't have a PAL DVD recorder. But then you suffer in lost video quality, whereas one would have to go down the long arduous road with lossless transfer.
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Postby eighties » Sun May 16, 2010 12:08 pm

Elvis, I've uploaded my rip of <a href="http://www.zshare.net/video/761796410c8e1367/">Blancmange - Waves</a>
Differences that I noticed were:

1.
A bit of signal interference 'waves' running throughout your capture.
Is your electrical power source clean?

2.
A high contrast picture (brighter whites and darker blacks)
The actual video is shot on a dreary day and is more accurately represented on my capture.
Do you have a contrast filter in place?

3.
mp2, 375 kbps, 48000 Hz, stereo
compared to
pcm_s16be, 1500 kbps, 48000 Hz, stereo audio
You are using mp2 audio?

I also use these captures for VJ use.

Let me know what you think.

All the best,
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Postby eighties » Sun May 16, 2010 1:44 pm

<a href="http://www.zshare.net/video/7618210999714e58/">Naked Eyes - Voices In My Head</a>

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Postby elviscaprice » Sun May 16, 2010 3:53 pm

Eighties, your right on all counts. I didn't even realize how lousy my recordings were. In fact its even worse, I went back to check what the DVD recorder was in fact recording at, which at its best possible setting I'm only getting 256Kbps. Argggg. Can't figure out why I never checked this till you jogged my brain. I can see I have some work to do.
Thanks for the two cuts by the way, excellent.
Couple questions for ya?
1. I see you keep your vids in mpeg format, is that so you can combine the pcm audio track after recording to the harddrive in lossless format?

2. I see your cutting your vids at about 6000/6500 Kb/s, but with a higher buffer rate. Is this the rate your achieving off the laserdisc or are you compressing the video?

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I determine how I'm going to upgrade my equipement and software so as to achieve better results. Obviously I'll use some of guidelines you already outlined and linked.

Thanks again,
Elvis
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Postby eighties » Sun May 16, 2010 4:34 pm

Elvis,

I capture with Premire through the Canopus 300, which creates an AVI file.
When I'm done trimming and cropping and/or replacing the audio track for the clip, I encode to MPEG.
This is the only time I convert from the original file.
Compression is almost a given considering the file size of the original (not VJ friendly) AVI.
Most current video services use a 6000/7000 kb/s and 1500 kbps ratio, so I follow their lead.

Let me know if you are looking for any other videos and send me a list of your videos if you have one.


All the best,
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Postby obs » Sun May 16, 2010 6:13 pm

[i]> My guess for the different formats (PAL 24 frames per second, and NTSC at 29.97 frames per second) is that to limit illegal sales or copying of copyrighted material from one region to another.[/i]

They did the different framerates because of different electricity frequency. I used to have a multi-system TV, and when I played it in PAL mode (I'm in North America), you would see the "electricity ripples" (interference) in the picture.

50Hz -> PAL 25fps
60Hz -> NTSC ~30fps

Why there's different voltage/frequency worldwide, I can't answer [:)].
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Postby elviscaprice » Sun May 16, 2010 8:50 pm

Interesting Obs.

Eighties,
another question.
How are you transfering vhs through your system?
Are you running sound directly through your Canopus 300 into? A capture card. Please run through the connections from your LD player via Canopus 300 via capture card.

Thanks
Elvis
P.S. Do you use a TBC card ?
and why use the Canopus 300, why not directly into the capture card in complete lossless format? I have an intensity Pro card that I will use for capture, seems to me that it can capture and convert analog signal just fine in avi format.
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Postby elviscaprice » Sun May 16, 2010 9:56 pm

Eighties, send me your email address via here on NWO. or direct
elviscaprice@yahoo.com

I'll send you an excel list of my collection.
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Postby eighties » Mon May 17, 2010 1:56 am

Here is the flow:

Laserdisc:
Pioneer CLD-939 (Laserdisc Player) - RCA Audio/Video cables - Canopus ADVC-300 (Capture Card) - FireWire - Computer - Adobe Premire (Software)

VHS:
Panasonic AG-DS545 (S-VHS Player w/TBC) - RCA Audio/S-Video cables - Canopus ADVC-300 (Capture Card) - FireWire - Computer - Adobe Premire (Software)

Beta:
Sony EDW-30F (SuperBeta Player w/TBC) - RCA Audio/S-Video cables - Canopus ADVC-300 (Capture Card) - FireWire - Computer - Adobe Premire (Software)

I bought the hi-end equipment for the best results. For VHS/Beta, the TBC was a must and the Panasonic is a professional TV studio model.

Honestly, the Blancmange video for Waves isn't the best quality to begin with, even on Laserdisc. It was just shot poorly back in 1982. Compared to the quality of the Naked Eyes video for Voice In My Head, which is much more crisp looking.

As always, you're only as good as your source material AND the ability to play it back at it's full potential.

Email me: eighties1 at yahoo dot com
I probably have around 10,000 to 12,000 or so videos now.

All the best,
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Postby elviscaprice » Sat May 29, 2010 12:14 am

Update on the digital upgrade to my transfers. Tried Black Magic Intensity Pro for capture to Adobe Pro CS5 w/ utter failure. Find out that my motherboard just may not be compatible for firmware update failure w/ the intensity pro Pcie card. Arggg.
So, I'm back to either the Canopus 300 to capture in the DV codec or , available in June the intensity shuttle. Has all the capabilities of the intensity pro card. Just need to connect w/ a USB 3.0. Thus will need to install a 3.0 Pcie card.
Oh the joy!!!
Elvis
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Postby elviscaprice » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:18 pm

Found a Pioneer Elite DVL-91 today, sweet deal in mint shape. What a difference it made in quality. Now if Black Magic would get that new hub released, I'm up and running with lossless recordings and editing.
On another note: LLoyd Cole and the Commotions DVD arrived - Slightly disappointed in the audio quality, AC3 low bit rate.
Propaganda - The Video Collection, extra live tracks (Dream Within A Dream), two commercials, and Duel (Version 2), Audio same AC3, as the recent CD/DVD release.
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Postby elviscaprice » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:57 pm

Whew!!! What a task it was. Finally finished all the transfer work of my laserdisc/VHS material. About a 100 laserdiscs and 36 VHS tapes. Also cleaned up and fit, barely, my library of DVD's neatly onto a 2TB drive. Thanks Eighties for your pushing me to transfer at the highest quality possible. Still have a bit of work to do w/ Adobe Premier CS5, but I'll do it at my leasure. Sold off most of my hard copy collection.
Still looking for a few NTSC laserdiscs but I have this material in equal or weaker form on other sources. Wish I could easily get ahold of a PAL laserdisc player for a day, there's about 3 to 5 titles I would love to aquire and transfer, just can't bring myself to plunk down the cash for such few/ not so important works, let alone a player.
Anyone looking to trade materials feel free to drop me an email and I'll send you 3 notepad lists of what I have stored and ready to go. elviscaprice@yahoo.com
I will only be around till the end of June, so make it quick if interested, won't be back in the country for at least another year.
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