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Stay (The Second Time Around) [Solved]

Postby gnj1958 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:36 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by deevo0[/i]
<br>

Man, I have to disagree. This is a stone cold whodunnit. The tried-and-true way to make progress is to a) clarify what you know and don't know; b) question what you THINK you know; c) keep making unknowns knowns to get a better picture. What else can be done? Just sit there and hope?[/quote]

Yes pretty much. Anything that could be found out would have been found out by now.

[quote][i]Originally posted by deevo0[/i]
<br>
In the case of the radio station, maybe someone who worked at that station is still alive. Maybe they remember the song. Or maybe the station kept a track listing that is sitting in a box somewhere.
[/quote]

I doubt anybody that played a nothing song 25 years ago is going to remember it and to find it on a playlist assuming they still have it you would need to know not only what year it was played but what day and probably time too. We don't have that information. The year he recorded it is dubious at best.

[quote][i]Originally posted by deevo0[/i]
<br> And the fact that it is a German station seems important. To me, that means it is more likely that the artist was either British or continental. [/quote]

That's almost a given, can't think of too many American bands that play that kind of music. Doesn't really help much though does it.

[quote][i]Originally posted by deevo0[/i]
<br> And when the clip of the song was recorded is obviously important! [/quote]

When the song was recorded is important, the clip not so much.

We will find out what this song is when either someone finds it in an old record shop by pure chance or if someone involved in the recording hears it.

In order to find it the way you're talking about you would need at least one piece of information.

Either the artist, the (real) title, the record label, the producer

Without one of those pieces of info the year and country of origin won't really help much. There are literally 10.000's songs recorded every year and most remain in obscurity.
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Postby humanracer » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:49 pm

Hi
The most crucial question (for me) is whether this song is a demo or fully produced. On this site you can find a link to download cassettes from the Electronic Soundmaker magazine. It has a lot of great songs, some of which never got recorded in a studio. Even if you Google them you cannot get any information. http://www.nwoutpost.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33207 My point is that if this was a demo showcase then you are unlikely to find any more trace of that recording.
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Postby gnj1958 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:03 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by humanracer[/i]
<br>Hi
The most crucial question (for me) is whether this song is a demo or fully produced. On this site you can find a link to download cassettes from the Electronic Soundmaker magazine. It has a lot of great songs, some of which never got recorded in a studio. Even if you Google them you cannot get any information. http://www.nwoutpost.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33207 My point is that if this was a demo showcase then you are unlikely to find any more trace of that recording.
[/quote]

Even in the raw condition this recording is in you can tell it's a full studio recording. It's easy to do good quality demos these days with computers and the many programs to assist you but this was recorded back in the mid 80's when it would have been a lot harder. Plus I doubt they would be playing demo quality songs on the radio.

It's probably one of the millions of songs that gets released every year that get little or no recognition and disappear into obscurity. If you spent any time in record shops looking for rare records you know there are a lot of records out there of songs you've never heard of by bands and artists you've never heard of.
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Postby MikeP » Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:47 am

And onward we march. How many members here purchased obscure vinyl releases in a fit of "feeling lucky" through GEMM or MusicStack only to be disappointed time and time again.

I agree that the song does sound like something produced in the UK or Europe. The singer's choice of words and enunciation seem to suggest that he is not a native English speaker, but affectation being what it is, who knows. The production and style seem to place it squarely in 1986 (+/- a year or two).

Brilliant to see someone tackling this as a short documentary! A very worthwhile cause -- I only hope we can reach a definitive conclusion over the course of the production.
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Postby tingliu » Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:51 pm

f650gsd..you have to get yourself a nick name for being creative..f65gsd doesnt fit you.I think. Worm was a grammar school nick name for me cause I always wormed myself out of trouble from the teacher. anyway I am glad you enjoyed those 12 inch sets.





______________________________________________
http://mmo4k.com/wow-gold-kaufen-4/WoW-Gold-kaufen-5/
http://mmo4k.com/Diablo-3-gold/
http://mmo4k.com/Guild-Wars-2/
http://mmo4k.com/aion-kinah-566/aion-ki ... kinah-1967
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Postby Crimsor » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:23 pm

[quote][i]Originally posted by gnj1958[/i]
<br>
It's probably one of the millions of songs that gets released every year that get little or no recognition and disappear into obscurity. If you spent any time in record shops looking for rare records you know there are a lot of records out there of songs you've never heard of by bands and artists you've never heard of.
[/quote]

Right, plus, look at all the songs we didn't know existed until searching for this one.
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Postby Retro_NRG » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:53 pm

[quote][i]Originally posted by Retro_NRG[/i]
<br>DANG!
Water7 just might be onto something here...

I've known and have their song 'Love Your Face' which DEFINITELY has a similar vocal inflection.

But WAIT..

It's been previously suggested the 'Stay' sample may be a pitched down taped copy of the original recording. Me thinks that might be the case given that 'Here Comes The Man' actually has a strikingly similar synth riff!

Anywho, here's the vid for it:

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uAlRNoqIDAE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


(Hope the band gets back to you Dan![8)])

<MARQUEE><h5>Moving @The Speed of Life</h5></MARQUEE>
[/quote]
Just for the heck of it I wanted to revisit this post since I have yet to see that Boom Boom Room or any members thereof were ever contacted or responded to inquiries regarding this mystery track. I cannot dismiss the distinct similarities in the vocalist's timbre and synth style present in both BBR's and the music sample. It seems to me just a matter of running both through an audio forensics app to draw a definitive comparison to affirm or dismiss it once and for all.
Any takers?

<MARQUEE><h5>Moving @The Speed of Life</h5></MARQUEE>
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Postby Richard » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:54 pm

Hi I was contacted a few years back about this and have posted a comment on you tube regarding it recently. I am aware of the vocalist from Boom Boom Room having spent many years playing with him in the band Zero Le Creche.

The vocals on Stay do not remind me of Andy's singing. This of course is many years back and is no guarantee that this isn't him and its a little know demo/promo of a song they were piloting at the time.

I will try to get in touch with him and see if he can shed any light on it. It may be that he has information between him and the other members of Boom Boom Room that will assist.

On my comment to You Tube do we know what German Radio Station this was played on. I'm presuming that this is the best quality recording that is available.
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Postby synthpop71 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:53 am

I must admit, that I have become obsessed with this mysterious song-snippet too. Since many years I have been following this thread, but I did not know how to contribute and I was hoping that someone will solve it (in the end).

Since no one solved it by now, I want to tell you my (lengthy) thoughts on this. Think of it as some kind of summary, omitting the ruled out songs and hopefully concentrating on the interesting bits and facts for further searching.
I think "deevo0" made some good remarks on how to structure further musical investigations. By now, it should be clear that this song is not an easy task to solve. Perhaps it was never officially released or the record company was very very small or the company folded up during the production or release. Somehow this recording vanished into obscurity and that is basically all we know.

Another thing is, I'm not really sure whether it is a good production or a low-budget one. Since it is an old tape recording from a radio station, I would like to know the recording equipment (big stereo system vs. small portable stereo). Perhaps the owner of this recording could send us snippets of the other recordings on that tape. Especially the songs which were recorded directly before and after the mysterious song. This could shed some light upon overall sound quality and it could put "stay (second time around)" into a larger perspective. For example, if the surrounding songs are rarities in itself or if these songs are from german artists or german record companies.

Furthermore I have read the information given by the original tape owner that the song was either recorded in 1984 (Hessen 3, HR3) or 1986 (NDR 1). How can he be so sure? But if he is right, he should remember the name of the radio shows. Obviously it must have been a show for a special interest crowd, preferably aired late in the evening.
In an earlier posting (around 2006) it says, someone suggested that the song was recorded off the radio show "Songs vom Synthesizer" hosted by Rainer Sauer. Is it true or merely speculation?
Rainer Sauer was even contacted back in 2006 and he answered that "Stay" was recorded by "K. Barré" but it was not the song obviously.
Interestingly enough Rainer Sauer aired the old series again in 2009. Under the name 'Synthesizer Studio' some (or all?) old radio shows "Sounds vom Synthesizer" were available as an online stream from Webradio ZONO. Sadly, I missed the opportunity to listen to these shows. Here are some Links to the show and Rainer Sauer in german language:

http://www.soundsvomsynthesizer.de/
http://a-u-t-o-b-a-h-n.blogspot.de/
https://twitter.com/RainerSauerJena

Regarding the discussions on the show "Sounds vom Synthesizer" it must have had a very nerdish approach on synthesizer music and electronic sounds. But, as Rainer Sauer stated in his posting (email) from 2006, the show often played music from ZYX (german record company with mainly italo-disco style artists) and from the new artist section of the show emerged the band Camouflage (The Great Commandment). Taking these facts into consideration, it might still be possible that "Stay" was played on "Sounds vom Synthesizer". The show existed from 1983 until late 1985.

Having said that, I must admit, that I don't think "Stay" was recorded or even played in 1984. Many early synth-pop or dark wave (electro wave) artists used analog synths and drum machines. I looked through many old vinyl records from that time, mostly rare 7-inch singles from flea markets and car boot sales. Many early recordings have very fat sounding synth basslines and heavy artificial sounding drumcomputer use (Roland TR-808) throughout the tracks. Our mysterious song "stay" has no audible bassline at all and the drumcomputer sounds fairly natural. All in all it sounds very "polished". Furthermore the lush sounding synth-glitter at the end of the song is very characteristic. It sounds digital and is probably a Yamaha DX 7 (introduced in 1983) with its "Tub Bell" (Tubular Bell) preset. After its release in 1983 the new digital sounding DX 7 made a huge impact on the synth-scene and somehow gradually superseded the analogue sounding synths. On top of this, during the mid-eighties synth-pop started to decline. If "Stay" would have been recorded as early as 1984, I think every A&R division of a record label would have known that it might have been a minor hit-single with eventual chart success at the time.

To sum it up - "Stay" has:

No Funky Bass
No or very quiet Guitar
No Trumpets or Saxophone
No Handclaps (disco -> Italo)
No Orchestral Stab (disco- Italo)
No fat Disco Beat

So, if "Stay" is probably from 1986 as the original owner suggested, which NDR1 Radio Show did he record by the time?

As we know, it was certainly played by a german radio station! This raises another question for me - why should a german station play the song? How would they know about this record? If the band was german this question would be easy to answer, but the singer does not sound very german to me. (I am german, by the way). During the 1980s a german singer was easy to identify. (For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkLdf9xzcc4) And even the widely known Alphaville or Camouflage don't sound exactly as if their vocalists were English native speakers! Am I right?

Unfortunately, I don't know very much about 1980s record company structures or distribution politics. Therefore I'm speculating (once again)! If the record company was german or a big global player with global distribution it would have been possible that a german radio station played the song due to promotion. But if it was a small label from the UK, the record would not have been played, promoted or distributed in Germany if the record didn't have some impact on the charts in its home country. This makes me think, perhaps it was a german band with an English singer. Or the producer of the song was german with good relations to a german record company and/or radio stations (NDR 1). To put it simply, how do we connect this recording to a german radio station? Why does or did it remain completely unknown to the rest of the world?


When I heard the song for the first time I thought this one would be easy to solve. The singers voice sounded familiar and a million references and possibilities popped up in my head. Eventhough "Stay" is very different from the following two songs, my first "musical reference" thoughts were from the years 1986/1987. Probably some synth sound similiarities made me think of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i9lBLj7GnY
(Mike & the Mechanics - Silent Running)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BFJJPF1Xk
(Humpe & Humpe - Careless Love)

I know these Links aren't very helpful, but after listening to the usual suspects I ruled out for myself the following bands because their sound and vocalists sound different to me: Ultravox, Midge Ure, Japan, David Sylvian, China Crisis, Blancmange, Naked Eyes, Classix Nouveaux, Heaven 17, Pseudo Echo, John Foxx, Icehouse, Lotus Eaters, Fiat Lux, Al Corley

And I ruled out for myself many suspects from my vinyl obscurities because of sound and voice:
A Popular History Of Signs, Voice of America, Zerra One, Vitamin Z, H2O, Boxbury Beat, Opposition, Bourgie Bourgie, Birch and Hallam, Music For Pleasure, Fra Lippo Lippi, The Expression, Models


Concerning the voice of the singer it comes close to the following bands:
Car Crash Set, Furniture, The Light (Box Of Toys)

That's all! [:I]
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Postby Crimsor » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:23 pm

[quote][i]Originally posted by synthpop71[/i]
<br>
Perhaps the owner of this recording could send us snippets of the other recordings on that tape. Especially the songs which were recorded directly before and after the mysterious song. [:I]
[/quote]

Yes, I agree! There is a good chance that the preceding and following songs were recorded around the same time, which could certainly help us out.
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Postby johnsteerling » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:00 pm

Hi, to you all, I'm looking for this song too. For a long time now. Do you know if any of these suggestions can be deleted? Thanks :-)

5 CV - Stay with me
Y-do-I - If you stay
Bridge - Don't go, please stay
Studio sex - Please don't go
Big sur - Please stay
Flame dream - Stay with me
Grunwald ice band - I want you to stay
Otitis - Next time
Sprint - Stay
Soundtrack: Music around the world - Stay with me
Soundtrack: Memphis blues - Stay with me
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Postby gnj1958 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:24 pm

[quote][i]Originally posted by synthpop71[/i]
<br>
When I heard the song for the first time I thought this one would be easy to solve. The singers voice sounded familiar
[/quote]

I thought the same thing. The first time I heard I said to myself "that voice sounds familiar" but even after all this time I can't understand why.

He does sound a bit like Dee Harris from Fashion but it's obviously not him.
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Postby Gilaro » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:37 pm

[quote]the singer does not sound very german to me. (I am german, by the way). During the 1980s a german singer was easy to identify.[/quote]

"waun you" at 0:24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71e_R5nR7FU

I think it is a german singer..

[quote]the owner of this recording could send us snippets of the other recordings on that tape. Especially the songs which were recorded directly before and after the mysterious song.[/quote]

That is true.
Wanted to ask him before about that, but seems like he is no more into all this..
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Postby synthman78 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:46 am

Hey all,

Just thought I'd jump and in and disagree with a few points made earlier about when this track was recorded. First off, there was the point that the drum machine used here sounds to natural to be from the early 80s. I believe there is a good reason for that: These are in my opinion real drums, not a drum machine. Drum machines didn't sound that real until Roland released the R-8 in 1989. (The snare does sound rather R-8 ish though.) If it really is a drum machine, it would have been recorded in or after 1989, which conflicts with the 1984 or 1986 origins of the tape. (Listen to Endgames’ Love Cares for reference. The drums sound like a machine, but that is actually Simple Minds’ Brian Mc Gee playing drums on that track)
I agree with the fact that this would have been recorded in a studio, since there are real drums and a bass guitar in the mix. The drum sounds are well isolated from each other, the reverb on the snare is definitely different then the effect on the high hat. Even with the poor tape quality you can tell that it had to have been a good mix, since each instrument has its own clear presence, good stereo placement etc. Having stretched 4 track recordings to the limit myself, I would say with certainty that this was recorded in a proper multi-track studio, with a good engineer / producer at the helm. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t a demo, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a session recorded for a radio station, it just meant someone spent a good chunk of money recording it properly.
Instrument wise, there is a lot of early 80s analog gear in it. I can’t pinpoint much of it except to say I do hear a lot of Roland’s infamous “Stereo Chorus” effect on the synth pads, making me think they might be JX -3P or Juno series boards. That DX sound someone was referring to sounds more like it is made up from 2 sources with a slight delay between them. I would say the synths used on this track are from 1983 – 1984.
Stylistically it reminds me a lot of Piotr Wolff’s band, Machine Age, but since they weren’t around until 2002, we can throw that idea out the window….

What does all this mean though? I don’t know. Someone spent good money recording this track in a studio, so it is strange that we haven’t found anybody that was involved in recording it. Unless this whole thing is a hoax, we have got to find someone with knowledge of this recording somewhere…

Cheers
DJ Formaldehyde aka Andreas from Techniques Berlin.
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Postby synthman78 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:23 am

One more thought: If the singer is German / Danish etc... "Talking to a blue sky" could be "Talking to a blues guy"......
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