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Trees "Sleep Convention" on CD this December


Re: Trees "Sleep Convention" on CD this December

Postby Qbertqubes » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:31 pm

My main question is "what is the deal with Barmy?" It sounds like he is deep and secretively interested in the reissue of this cd. I know I am interested but the seller needs to let the buyer know it is an illegal bootleg. I will wait for the real thing as I do have the album and is is a great lost gem.
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Re: Trees "Sleep Convention" on CD this December

Postby Passing_Stranger » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:32 pm

First of all, let me state that Trees created two songs that are among my biggest favourites from the 1980s - "Shock of the New" and especially "Red Car". These two are the works of genius, no less. I'm not as convinced by the rest of the LP and find it to be a matter of mood or setting to like it or just tolerate. But I wholeheartedly support the idea of it being on CD after all this time.

Which brings me to this topic. I just recently got off a friend the CD that Rubellan managed to get banned on Discogs. He then wrote this:

"a third party corresponded with the "label" and was given a track to review the quality. He passed the wave file on to me and it was dire. There was a very heavy handed use of noise reduction that left very negative artifacts in the quiet areas, there was still audible and visible clicks and pops, and a very sharp fade was added to the end and cut off a full 8 seconds"

Well, I'm holding the CD in question in my hands now and after listening to it let me state that Scott's description is misleading to say the least. I'm not sure now what source he listened to (if at all), as this CD by Perspekt/F in reality sounds just like a great remaster should. I state that, as I for years have had a straight-off-the-vinyl rip (in flac) - and it's what sounds dire and dull with still audible clicks and pops. Perspekt/F CD in back-to-back comparison sounds great - very clear, reasonably loud while not at all compressed, with great sound balance and no vinyl artefacts in sight (sound). Vocals even seem to be highlighted, I feel (that may only be my impression, though), with all nuances audible. "Red Car" is striking, I'll say that how I always wanted to hear this gem of a song!

Which brings me to the situation regarding banning. One thing is when the project is on the go - you justly eliminate competition to prevent them stealing your thunder. In Scott's case, however, the project is only suggested to the powers that be - with no guarantee whatsoever of any kind of success (as past efforts show). That's what makes Scott's actions highly questionable. Yes, I read that it was with the artists's blessing - but what if Scott's project won't succeed? Is no Trees on CD (factory-pressed high quality CD, by the way, just like the good old days!) really preferable?

In short, I suggest anyone interested in this album to search for the CD in question on other platforms. It's not in high numbers, it looks and sounds great, it will make a collector's item easily - and it won't derail Scott's project as, once it comes to fruition, will have much more to offer and really is a different thing altogether.
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Re: Trees "Sleep Convention" on CD this December

Postby Danielwaver » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:38 pm

Scott, so it appears you haven't heard from the label and won't for the foreseeable future. I'll come back here in 2 months to repeat what I said. In the meantime my re-issue CD is in the mail as we speak...
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Re: Trees "Sleep Convention" on CD this December

Postby Rubellan » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:37 am

No, no response yet from Universal, and I'm as frustrated as anyone. All 3 majors give you the impression a reissue takes about 6 months from start to finish, but here I am at about 9 months since my first contact with Sony, with Warners following in August and Universal in September, and I don't even have a single final clearance yet. But Sony tell me that I should expect some clearances before the end of March. The other 2 have offered no clues at this point, so it's a waiting game. Trust me, I'm probably weakening my heart each day waiting for that specific notification sound that I have set to the email address I have for label communications. I am so eager to get ANYTHING rolling at this point but I cannot force anyone's hand. I've already annoyed the original Sony contact with only the occasional inquiry, I don't want to repeat that with Warners or Universal. I have had contact with both labels in the past couple of weeks about other things but there's been no feedback about my requests. FYI, between the 3 majors, I have about 20 reissue requests submitted. And remember, it was the Universal contact who gave the impression I should receive feedback on Trees within a few weeks. More than 4 months later, I'm still waiting...
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Re: Trees "Sleep Convention" on CD this December

Postby Passing_Stranger » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:58 am

I'd like to know the exact reason for such a behaviour. They can't be arsed? They are wary of something? They have no masters and don't want to admit it? They want money upfront? Can't comprehend it. Why hold back any reissue, what is the reasoning? It's not like it's going to do any harm... I'm so confused.
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Re: Trees "Sleep Convention" on CD this December

Postby Rubellan » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:36 pm

Passing_Stranger wrote:I'd like to know the exact reason for such a behaviour. They can't be arsed? They are wary of something? They have no masters and don't want to admit it? They want money upfront? Can't comprehend it. Why hold back any reissue, what is the reasoning? It's not like it's going to do any harm... I'm so confused.

From what I have been told specifically by the labels is that before anything can be done with any of the titles, they have to be cleared by the business affairs/legal department. The drawback is that that department handles everything in "priority" order, not in any sort of next-in-line order. If I'm requesting a pressing of 1000 for any artists they don't feel worthy of reissuing themselves, I'm essentially in the gutter. The legal department handles all sorts of clearances, including big ticket clearances that will bump ahead of mine any day. Even if I have numerous requests in, each are handled individually so it's not like that increases the priority. The contacts I have at each label are with the sales departments who then forward my request form to BA/Legal, then it's out of their hands. I have had them occasionally send a "nudge" email to legal as a reminder of sorts but it results in nothing. Simply put, it's not worth their time to make the effort unless they've run out of bigger ticket items to clear. And I personally believe this is exactly why reissue labels are few, and some of those out there reissue crap that's not owned by a major, such as some random concert or other. One of the labels I've remastered for in recent years said they are DONE working with majors because they make everything difficult, and have even denied some of their requests only to steal the idea and reissue it themselves. I don't necessarily foresee that being an issue with my requests but who knows.

Regarding master availability, that doesn't even come into play until the title clears legal and a price is agreed on. Once that happens, the archive is checked for available tapes. The good thing about Sony is that they will have A&R research a title and come up with a price before it moves on to languish in the legal department forever. Warners and Universal don't, so I could wait a year for something to clear only to find the cost is not realistic and not move forward with it. I've already declined one Sony title because the price was too high. I think the sales departments with a couple of the labels would be more than happy to have things move faster, and the fact that Universal used to have a 20,000 unit requirement less than a decade ago (I was told this is why a previous label that wanted to reissue the Trees album declined) and are now down to 1000-1500 shows they want to play ball, but labels have been downsized quite a bit in the last decade so now other departments are taking on more responsibilities because there could be only 1 or 2 people in the legal department now handling everything. I've had other third party labels tell me that it has taken YEARS between initial clearance and final clearance for some titles, so why I was led to believe by the majors themselves to expect an average 6 month turnaround is beyond me. I can only hope at least Sony will follow through with a few of my titles being cleared by the end of March, but then it took a phone conversation with the senior VP of sales to get to that point.

Regarding money, they do not ask for anything until everything is cleared, mastered and pressed, ready for shipment. Only then they request payment. Universal even offer a credit plan, which I declined because I just want to pay for each title in full after manufacture. I have offered two of the labels advances to prove my seriousness but there's been no interest. I do think they each initially took my interest lightly but have eventually realized I'm serious. Universal had me fill out a vendors application a couple of weeks ago after I sent in a few more requests, so I think they know this isn't a joke. I can't imagine too many people sending in reissue requests and not following through, especially since it took me ages to finally find proper contacts within the labels because they certainly don't advertise a link on any company websites. But if any requests they receive do turn out to be a insincere, I woudn't be surprised it's the unspecified and extended wait time for anything to happen that could cause a potential startup to say hell with it and move on to another interest. For me, this has been a long time coming so hopefully this will be the year it all begins to move. I'm not kidding when I say something NEEDS to happen soon because after nearly a year of this resulting in nothing, it's becoming maddening. I'd like to think by sending in the amount of requests that I have, and intend to, that once clearances start coming, releases could start happening at regular intervals. I hope that's not being too optimistic.
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Re: Trees "Sleep Convention" on CD this December

Postby Bellenger1981 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:38 pm

Very interesting read, Scott! Thank you for the update. Best of luck to you!! Really looking forward to supporting your releases whenever they come out!
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Re: Trees "Sleep Convention" on CD this December

Postby Danielwaver » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:47 pm

So Scott, how is this project coming along? Do you still think it was a right move to block the unofficial CD when you had nothing confirmed? I will come back to this in a few months and I'm confident you have no updates.
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Re: Trees "Sleep Convention" on CD this December

Postby Barmy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:59 pm

He didn't block it. I have it and it is easily findable. I won't be buying it again.
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Re: Trees "Sleep Convention" on CD this December

Postby Rubellan » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:37 pm

Danielwaver wrote:So Scott, how is this project coming along? Do you still think it was a right move to block the unofficial CD when you had nothing confirmed? I will come back to this in a few months and I'm confident you have no updates.


You know what, I was being foolishly optimistic at the time thinking we would not have to wait until the end of the next century to finally have some movement on this title, especially when I was initially informed to give it only a couple of weeks. Trust me, I wouldn't block another title because I'm giving up on this whole record label dream. I'm fed up with the absolute disrespect and rudeness of some of those involved. Several months can go by with no contact and then I will send out a quick inquiry regarding my various titles and I cannot even be given the courtesy of a response. And even though one of the labels has begun to move on my titles and I've been contacted from other departments who make it sound like things are ready to go, no further responses come and simple questions continue to go unanswered. I've been very good with all of these people not to harass and badger them, taking into account that they are dealing with others as well. But when simple questions or inquiries are completely ignored after months of nothing, it's clearly not worth anyone's time. I've got 9 titles going through Sony, 6 through Warners and 6 through Universal. If anything comes of any of the titles from Warners or Universal, I will be astounded, but I have absolutely no plans at this time to send any of the labels any further requests because of the general conduct. So Danielwaver, if you are asking me if I've learned some sort of lesson, the answer is yes. If a bootleg shows up, I say have at it because trying to do things above board has resulted in teeth grinded down to the gums. Many of these people have really tested my patience to the absolute extreme and it's absolutely not worth it. It would have been nice if a respectable business relationship could have been built with these corporations but they are not interested. Like I've said before, I'm not begging anyone to take my savings. If my label becomes a reality, it will be a short lived one, that's for damn sure. Let the next guy deal with all the waiting, stress and rudeness for a nominal profit margin.
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Re: Trees "Sleep Convention" on CD this December

Postby swerve » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:02 pm

Hello Scott,

Although you don't want to sour on any progress with anything that may become a reality with what you have currently in place sometimes you have to go to the top in a corporation and let it trickle down.

If you were to clearly articulate to the CEO's of each of these large corporations ( the trickle down effect - although not very nice for certain individuals at some levels ) sends a message that business can't be conducted in this manner no matter who you are, big or small.

I would hope a CEO has worked their way up through the ranks and can put themselves in your shoes and finds it unacceptable so behaviours can be corrected. It sounds like it's a matter of common courtesy to respond or even outline for you a timeline that although it can shift sets up expectations as to how things will flow, that way if a certain amount of time has expired then it's okay for you to follow up at certain points and receive an update promptly.

I would be curious as to what a day in the life of is for those you are in touch with and the other employees in departments that are dealing with your requests as well. The worst thing would be these companies stretched so thin these days that they really are too busy to deal with everyone in a professional manner which then requires a CEO / Board of Directors to reassess their workforce. If it's not enough people then from the outset they need to say sorry but we just don't have the resources available to help you out.

From the sounds of it unless you're going to pay for a guarantee of huge quantities it's not worth their time and they need to inform those like you of this from the outset or if they are willing to work with anyone let people know this is going to take a very long time and not string you along.

As I said in one of the first posts I made responding to the news you were going to start on this journey it is a very slow process and that was over 25 years ago when I'm sure they had more bodies when times were better at the labels.

Take it to the top.
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Re: Trees "Sleep Convention" on CD this December

Postby Rubellan » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:17 pm

.
Last edited by Rubellan on Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Trees "Sleep Convention" on CD this December

Postby Barmy » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:03 pm

Less wordy please. Haven't read most of this dumbass thread. Tx.
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Re: Trees "Sleep Convention" on CD this December

Postby Rubellan » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:27 am

Barmy wrote:Less wordy please. Haven't read most of this dumbass thread. Tx.

Hey moron, do you really think anyone is going to cater to you? You're an idiot and never offer anything constructive to any thread. Drop the narcissistic "this is what I want and what I think should be released" nonsense because the only impressions you've continued to make over the years is that you are a pathetic loser with absolutely no redeeming value in any capacity. Too wordy?
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Re: Trees "Sleep Convention" on CD this December

Postby Bellenger1981 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:49 am

Barmy wrote:Less wordy please. Haven't read most of this dumbass thread. Tx.

Then why bother coming to this thread? You got your bootleg copy and are happy with it, so why are you here?
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