Bring On Your Digitization Hints...

[hubcity]

Some digitization info came up in the "Where Did Your New Wave Records Go" thread, so here's a devoted topic...

[quote][i]Originally posted by Frank_Chickens[/i]
Hubcity, I would love to put the remaining vinyl onto CD. The things that are stopping me is a lack of space for the record player and more importantly the highly FUSTRATING problem of transferring it while ensuring the bass/treble/volume isn't too much or too little. That is the one thing that has REALLY put me off trying before[/quote]

Yeah, that bugged me for a while, too - it took a little time upfront to work that out. Here's how I solved it:

- Record something, using Audacity. Use it to normalize the audio, to correct DC offset (the #1 reason do-it-yourself digitizing sounds weird) and to reduce noise. (The normalization and DC offset are both part of the same process; the noise reduction is a two-parter, where you sample a part of the recording that only contains noise, then use that sample to clean out the noise wherever it appears.)
- Burn that to CD.
- Play back the CD through the amp you played your record through. It should sound the same. After noise reduction, it might even sound better. (Don't worry about levels - that's next.)
- If it doesn't sound the same, use Audacity on your sound file to change the EQ settings, and remember those.
- When you figure out what the EQ settings are, use them from that point forward. Every bit of vinyl you record from then on will sound just like the original bit of vinyl.
- Now, just start recording stuff and saving it to high-quality MP3 (I use 256Kb.)

Now here's the nice part, once you've made an MP3 out of your vinyl: there's a free tool out there called MP3Gain that will make sure that all your MP3 files have roughly the same loudness (within 1.5db.) It does this by using a feature in MP3 that lets it change the sound file's volume without uncompressing and recompressing (which affects its quality.) Note that I said "loudness" - this is the level you hear it at, rather than the level of the loudest thing in the file. It makes a big difference, and it's why everything on Altrok Radio sounds about as loud as everything else on the stream.

Anyone have other tips?

-Sean
Altrok Radio
Streaming on your computer anytime, at <a href="">http://www.altrokradio.com</a>
Fridays at 10PM on your FM radio, at <a href="http://90.5thenight.org">90.5 The Night</a>

[Max Murdoc]

I use Adobe Audition (Cool Edit Pro). I record at a flat response on the equalization, save as a wav file then run a light pop and click eliminator and a light hiss reduction (if needed). You have to watch the hiss reduction because too much will distort the cymbals.

I might have to go in every now and then to remove some debris that might have been missed. I then adjust the "loudness" (no peak in the red) and save as a 320 mp3.

I haven't had any negative feedback on any of my rips so it must be ok.

Max

The music you listen to is the soundtrack of your life.

[hubcity]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Max Murdoc[/i]
<br>I record at a flat response on the equalization [...][/quote]

I do, too, but need to offset some tinniness introduced somewhere between the turntable and the sound card. I splurged a bit on a sound board that lets me tweak low, high and midrange levels, and that offset the tinniness perfectly so that I don't have to keep remembering to do it with my software. I left those steps in because others might stumble across the same problem - all sound cards aren't created equal.

[quote][i]Originally posted by Max Murdoc[/i]
<br>You have to watch the hiss reduction because too much will distort the cymbals.[/quote]

Agreed. I keep Audacity's NR near its lightest setting as well - but I do recommend trying it over CoolEdit because it removes hiss using the actual hiss of the recording, rather than some predefined notion of what constitutes hiss.

I do pop and click elimination by hand, though - when you listen to one A-B comparison between the before and after on a Depeche Mode record, you'll know why.

(By the way, I also use a Discwasher brush to clean my records beforehand - fewer pops to worry about.)

One thing about using the loudest sound on your recording to set levels: all records are not created with equal loudness. Especially recently; ever notice your new CDs sound louder than your old ones? They can't go higher than -0dB in a digital recording, so why the difference, right?

The difference is that in newer recordings, they chop off all the sudden highs, then run what's left to its highest possible volume. That way, they avoid being the softest CD in the changer (you've probably noticed by now that many 80's CDs that haven't been "remastered" are the quietest CDs in your changer; that's why.) 80's classics can't compete with that without clipping, because if you turn them up to the same listening level, the "sudden highs" shoot the meter right into the red.

My solution is to bring everything in my collection down to the same listening level that the 80's classics were recorded in. (MP3Gain does that automatically.)

-Sean
Altrok Radio
Streaming on your computer anytime, at <a href="">http://www.altrokradio.com</a>
Fridays at 10PM on your FM radio, at <a href="http://90.5thenight.org">90.5 The Night</a>

[Rubellan]

I also have used Adobe Audition (Cool Edit Pro) since the late 90's. The noise reduction feature mentioned in Audacity is similar as in A.A. It can also remove some of the hiss as well, though I use a parametric EQ to remove everything above the turntable rumble before I sample the noise. The hiss reduction that comes with the Noise Reduction has a habit of wrapping around drum beats, so when you view them in the spectral view, you can see a 'coating' of hiss around the notes, where as if you use the hiss reduction carefully, you'll just get solid hiss reduction with no unpleasant artifacts.

As far as boosting volumes, I suggest hard limiting. It allows you to boost the volume dramatically without clipping anything. It just ensures the notes that would have clipped do not go over the damaging level, and it's completely inaudible.

I record the records directly through the sound card to the PC. They sound identical as is, but I select the songs I like to tweak with the EQ as one of the final steps.

My basic process: transfer to PC, save as .wav only (never any compressed format), initial balance adjust, listen to song in spectral view removing single clicks manually or applying special click removal filters I've created (only over small sections at a time), run subsonic filter over file to remove speaker damaging sub bass (which is inaudible, but damaging), obtain noise reduction profile and perform noise reduction (often times in increments, as fade outs require the most care to avoid ugly side effects), perform carful hiss reduction, re-EQ (if necessary), adjust volume to desired max level using hard limiting, listen and view song again through spectral view to get pops missed on first pass, burn test CD and listen through headphones.

This is the condensed process. The extended details include locating and repairing damage/distortions in the actual record, as well as repairing distorted "S" words on the rare occasion I get them. This all has to do with trial and error sampling and filtering, but I have the process down pretty well. None of this can be done without the spectral view in the audio program. You gotta see it to fix it.

Of course, all of this is useless, well not completely, if you don't have the correct stylus on the turntable to read the records. I will give you a hint. I've tried multi-hundred dollar cartridges, but nothing has surpassed the one I've used since the late 80's. It originally cost me $300, but has been available for years for under $100. The fidelity this thing pulls out of vinyl is astonishing.

See, easy as cake, and it only takes the better part of a week to transfer one album with corresponding bonus material. If you want the best results, you gotta work for 'em.

[Grunch]

Rubellan, you lost me after about the second process. Wish I had that ability - the knowledge and equipment, etc.....what I would do with some of my records. I know I will never get to that point, so hopefully people like you will get hounded by labels to get some of these records onto CD.

[Ollie Stench]

I just roll everything in and adjust the volume, EQ, etc after the fact. I use Magix Samplitude for the digitizing (it's like ProTools or SOund Forge), and I've got a good DirX Vinyl Restoration plug-in from Steinberg that works pretty well.

[Frank_Chickens]

Thanks hubcity for raising this topic. [:)]

Unfortunately, I agree with every word Grunch says. My brain turned itself off shortly into Rubellan's post. I too wish I had the ability so good luck to those who do.


--

"As chairman of the Cradle of Filth fanclub I'm the most insensitive man in Britain, but even I can see there's tension there"

[Rubellan]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Grunch[/i]
<br>Rubellan, hopefully people like you will get hounded by labels to get some of these records onto CD.
[/quote]

I seriously doubt it. From my experience it really does seem to be about saving cash and taking short cuts. If it's really that costly to occasionally get hands on original master tapes, then a couple hundred bucks to ensure a stunning vinyl remaster doesn't seem like that much at all... at least you would think. I would think a label that wants to save cash would at least try to ensure an amazing vinyl transfer. They will build a reputation of high quality releases and encourage future sales. What IS happening with some is they are damaging their reputation and losing sales and customers.

I don't advertise my remastering as a service, though if a label were to contact me through word of mouth with regards to it, it would definitely be discussed. I think my work speaks for itself, and after one or two sample masters (which would probably not result in a paycheck, more so than a trade of sorts for payment, as I've already done) that the concept of a paycheck for a guaranteed to please master would be acceptable. What I have seen is when actual cash enters into the picture, even if it's in no way an adequate compensation for the time involved to obtain the desired results, the relationship fades or sours. It is unfortunate that most of my skills are for my own personal use, but the struggling world of the freelance artists is not one I find too appealing.

[obs]

[i]I might have to go in every now and then to remove some debris that might have been missed. I then adjust the "loudness" (no peak in the red) and save as a 320 mp3.[/i]

ALWAYS save either an uncompressed version of the file or use a lossless compressor (such as FLAC). Don't throw away all that work by using a lossy compression, because there is no going back if something better comes along.

Record everything with no EQ, etc., and always keep a version of that original untainted recording. Again, you don't want to throw away the time it took to record it, because when you become more skilled at doing EQing and restoration, you can go back to the original source and start fresh.

[Max Murdoc]

[quote][i]Originally posted by obs[/i]
<br>[i]I might have to go in every now and then to remove some debris that might have been missed. I then adjust the "loudness" (no peak in the red) and save as a 320 mp3.[/i]

ALWAYS save either an uncompressed version of the file or use a lossless compressor (such as FLAC). Don't throw away all that work by using a lossy compression, because there is no going back if something better comes along.

Record everything with no EQ, etc., and always keep a version of that original untainted recording. Again, you don't want to throw away the time it took to record it, because when you become more skilled at doing EQing and restoration, you can go back to the original source and start fresh.
[/quote]

Due to space limitations, 320 mp3 is what I have to save as. I don't "finalize" it until I'm happy with the quality otherwise I would save as a FLAC file or leave it as a wav file. My 120 gig hardrive is already bursting at the seams as we speak.

Another very important subject we haven't touched upon is your soundcard. I bought a new computer with an on board soundcard and it was terrible. Spend the extra cash and get a new one. I'm running a SoundBlaster X-fi right now and I couldn't be happier. Just don't muck about with all the extra settings....you could end up with some really bad transfers (they might only sound good on your comp and sound pretty crappy on another).

Max

The music you listen to is the soundtrack of your life.

[surreal_eyed]

I transfer my vinyl, just like Rubellan. I've spent years collecting this stuff and preserving it for my future, in the best quality, with fewest clicks is most important.

The only trouble I've had is that I've trained my ears now to pick up the slightest of crackles and it either takes me so much longer to clean up, or I notice the ones I miss if I havent been careful enough.

I've got over a hundred gig of wav files that I'm in the process of cleaning up. They've had some auto passes and at least one manual pass to clean them up. I can't commit them to high variable bitrate mp3 yet though as they can still use some work.

Takes ages but, Gee it's nice to have them digitised when I'm done though.

[obs]

[i]Due to space limitations, 320 mp3 is what I have to save as. I don't "finalize" it until I'm happy with the quality otherwise I would save as a FLAC file or leave it as a wav file. My 120 gig hardrive is already bursting at the seams as we speak[/i]

No DVD Writer? <$100 will buy you a writer and 100x4.7GB (quality) discs.

[newwavepunkgirl]

I just pop a CD in and copy it into itunes. I wish I had the time to put all my stuff into mp3 format but I'm way too busy, sigh.[:(]

Devolution is real

[British]

Does anyone know how to equalize the left side vs. right side volume levels in Audacity? Any time I tried to do it in say, SoundForge, it equalizes it TOO much, giving you a headache.

[obs]

[i]Any time I tried to do it in say, SoundForge, it equalizes it TOO much, giving you a headache.[/i]

Sound Forge has a feature which does the offset before you record. After you click on the Record icon, a new window pops up. Check DC Adjust and then click on the Calibrate button. Once that is done, click on the Prepare button before recording.

Of course, this only offsets the connection. If the original source has unmatched L/R channels, this won't help.