New Wave Outpost Forum

by **MikeP** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:13 am

Okay folks, here's your lesson! <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src="/images/picschoolofrock.jpg">

by **Ollie Stench** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 8:34 am

So here comes something that is confusing:
How do you define New Wave (without keyboards)
as opposed to just punk?

I would say that by 1979 "Punk" had become a narrowly definde genre unto itself with all the rules and trappings of any other comodified "movement". All you have to do is look at bands like The Exploited, GBH, Discharge and the like.

Keyboard-less "New Wave" (Bow Wow Wow, Elvis Costello, Pretenders etc) took the energy of the initial punk explosion and threw away the confines of the genre.

There were also keyboard-driven bands that had no interest in following ANY kind of convention (Throbbing Gristle, Cab. Voltaire, early Eyeless In Gaza, ACR...)

by **Frayo** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:53 am

Two questions to Two people:

Mike: What movie is that from?

Ollie Stench: What other bands follow under this keyboard-driven mystery genre??

ME: kajafan86@playful.com
AIM: RaiyoKun (Im online almost all the time)

by **MikeP** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:00 am

Frayo,

Aha, the pic is from the forthcoming movie "The School of Rock" with the always-hilarious Jack Black (due out in October)! Note "New Wave" at the top of the blackboard.

As for keyboard vs. keyboard-less New Wave, I guess I would define most keyboard-oriented NW as flat-out 'synthpop' and most guitar-based NW as either 'postpunk' or 'power pop'. There was plenty of punk throughout the 80's marked by the obvious confrontational attitude and aural assault of guitars plus snide and often political lyrics. Postpunk added more arty and progressive elements to the mix, while still maintaining an edgy, angular sound in the spirit of punk. That's why bands like the Talking Heads, early XTC and Gang of Four tend to be classified as postpunk (not just because they followed after the original punk explosion).

You have to realize that all of these subgenres really amount to one big Venn Diagram of intersecting circles, where many bands fall into multiple categories. To make things worse, many bands evolved (and why not?), changing styles dramatically over time.

by **siouxmoux** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:26 pm

You could always goto here for new new wave music
http://genres.mp3.com/music/alternative/new_wave/

http://tv200.homestead.com

by **randy** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:25 pm

In response to the comment of people getting sick of the grinding guitars of alt-rock , I must agree. I'm one of those early 40's folks that really is open minded to most rock music--from the first British invasion , through the "classic" rock years , punk , ska , new wave , the alt music sound in the late 80's (how you classify bands such as the pixies i'm not sure) and even some of the "Hair bands". Grunge came on the scene in the early 90's and , to me , almost single handedly, killed rock. At first it sounded good and I like everyone else liked "Smells Like Teen Spirit". But did that get old FAST. Every single band out there sounded like ( ugh ) Pearl Jam and in my opinion that turned many people off and they gravitated to teeny pop and rap. Young kids in the 90's had a poor choice of music to listen to which is why by 2000 ALL you heard was rap or teeny pop. (and those grunge bands which refuse to realize they need to away) I get a pit in the stomach any time an alt music station plays a top 100 list and Nirvana is at number one. Ithink what really bothers me about todays music (with a few exceptions , I do not hate everything now)is that ther is NO originality. Yes , I expect to hear many rumblings at me now.

by **fritzb** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 4:56 am

No argument here Randy. I'm lucky if I can find 3 or 4 decent mainstream domestic releases a year worth listening to imo. I bet Columbia House Music Club thinks I died...

by **Ollie Stench** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:45 am

Ollie Stench: What other bands follow under this keyboard-driven mystery genre??

Most of the bands that would later be classified as "Industrial"...

SPK, Foetus, EARLY Skinny Puppy, Die Krupps, Grauzone, even some Fad Gadget...

Keep in mind that this is only my opinion and I fully expect people to disagree with me!

by **Frau_Blucher** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:50 am

I'd like to disagree with some of these sentiments about the hard alt rock in the 90s. Some really great music came out during this era that carried on a lot of the New Wave spirit. For me, one branch of New Wave split off into the explosion of really good electronica that grew out of synthpop. The other major one was the very rich period for nice hard guitar rock prior to the current shout-rock crap (Puddle of Mudd, etc). Just to list some off the top of my head...

Smashing Pumpkins
Blur
Catherine Wheel
Garbage
Collective Soul
Lenny Kravitz
Oasis
Bush
Alice in Chains
Radiohead
Soundgarden
Suede
Probably a ton more...

I'm careful not to list these these pop-rockers to hard-alt-rockers in the same mindless mold as Good (yeah right) Charlotte, etc.

by **randy** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:59 am

The bands you list I have to agree are good. But again, I see them as the exceptions rather than the rule in the 90's.

by **Frau_Blucher** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 1:25 pm

You're right Randy. It seems you have to dig a lot harder now for truly great music. I compare this to what's in my iPod for example - my rotation in my New Wave playlist usually contains nearly 1000 songs. If I do a sort by year, the song count by year forms an amazingly symetric bell curve with 1982 as its peak. 1982 itself accounts for nearly 200 songs THAT TRULY I LOVE.

Can you imagine a kick-ass song that totally captures your imagination coming out on the radio almost every other day?! Holy shnykies!!! What an amazing time that was. That just doesn't happen today. I'm pretty dutiful with my Brit-Pop-Rock, Hard-Alt-90s, and Electronica playlists, but they occupy a fraction of my beloved New Wave list.

...no, not biased at all :-)

by **Frayo** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:32 am

Ok, this isnt that brilliant idea, but somebody who really knows their stuff (which rules me out) should put together a Vienn (sp?) diagram of the music and classify it under micro-categories:

hey, it worked at TSP!!

ME: kajafan86@playful.com
AIM: RaiyoKun (Im online almost all the time)

by **Frau_Blucher** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:55 pm

[quote][i]Originally posted by Frayo[/i]
<br>Ok, this isnt that brilliant idea, but somebody who really knows their stuff (which rules me out) should put together a Vienn (sp?) diagram of the music and classify it under micro-categories:
[/quote]
Well??? Frayo's still waiting! [:D]

Actually a Venn breaks down pretty quickly after 4 items...otherwise you can bet your sweet ass that I'd have done it already! [^]

Hmm, I don't really know that you have a sweet ass actually.

by **TheMunDial** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:42 pm

For me, New Wave screams synth.

New Wave sans the synth is not as great, I think.

Ooh, and a Venn Diagram sounds neet-o. I'll start you off at the top:

Mozart

Work your way down, guys. [:D]

EDIT: Holy crap. This Thread is old.

by **Frau_Blucher** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:51 pm

[quote][i]Originally posted by TheMunDial[/i]
<br>EDIT: Holy crap. This Thread is old.
[/quote]
It's not old...it's a classic! There should be an NWO Classic Forum just for revisiting great old posts. [;)] Notice the grizzled veterans and their 2cents - FritzB, Ollie, MikeP, Randy, Siouxmoux, QuiteLife AND Frayo!

That's right, Frayo!! He of the sometimes wacky posts is in reality a wise sage of the NWO...calmly, cooly, and unwaveringly trickling us his nuggests just about longer than any other regular poster. I'll take this opportunity to give kudos to Frayo!

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