Ron Paul...

[oneno]

Why didn't Ron Paul have equal face time in the debates, or even worse, why wasn't he allowed to have a dedicated reporter to recap his camps takes on the debates like all the rest? Looks like he's being shunned by the media.

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one know

[NuWaveRx]

[quote][i]Originally posted by oneno[/i]
<br>Why didn't Ron Paul have equal face time in the debates, or even worse, why wasn't he allowed to have a dedicated reporter to recap his camps takes on the debates like all the rest? Looks like he's being shunned by the media.

[/quote]

As I've said before no empowered stakeholders including the media is interested in any real change in the status quo. Which is why Paul doesn't get equal media time--nor has a shot at the GOP nomination

[SallyLightfoot]

Sorry to go OT on the god thing but:

"It seems like a weak semantical argument that rather than being a belief in no god, it's a non-belief in god."

There is no semantic wordplay or obfuscation here. What I've stated about atheism is not overly complicated and not a cop-out to avoid proving anything. I called atheism a 'lack of belief' because that is what it is, particularly in reply to attempts at framing atheism as a cult against religion.

Swipes at atheism don't bother me, and why should they? There is nothing to defend-- there is no congregation of atheists, no holy land, no temple, no rituals, no sacraments, no tenets/articles of faith, no canonized beliefs, no saints, no holidays, no system of beliefs, no tax deductions. I don't even think of myself as an atheist, because I don't define myself in religious/spiritual terms on any level. I can deduce that I'm an atheist simply because I don't believe in any god or supernatural beings. But not because I subscribe to a carefully constructed "photo-negative" of a belief-system as a world-view.

Someone referred to LDS as a cult, and I said, in effect, that all religions are cults. Readers also perhaps suffered my slings and arrows when I referred to various faiths as "arbitrary" and "fantastically dubious." While I stand by my comments, I hope that readers here do not feel offended by my opinions.

[Frau_Blucher]

I'm certainly not offended by your comments Sally nor arguing about the isolated definition of the word. I'm merely thinking out loud about [i]all[/i] your statements and thinking that your judgmental context undermines your supposedly prima facie content. I'm also not endorsing any other view or excusing other arguments that might be even weaker than yours. Maybe my distinctions are too subtle for the dogmatists of various stripes.

Oh, and I'm thinking now that Ron Paul is consistently less impressive in the full context of these debates than in his youtube snippets. You have to good ideals (or possibly not even that), but you also have to be a leader. Paul is just unimpressive in that respect. He comes across to me a bit naive and mousy. I'm also concerned about his fairly strict creationist stand, though if he's a true libertarian, he'll be able to separate any possible religious agenda from his economic and political ones. Maybe he'd make a better cabinet member.

[SallyLightfoot]

Thanks for steering this back on topic. I don't think the issue is that I'm being dogmatic-- I'm just resisting the common tendency to force everything into a black-or-white issue, e.g., if you don't believe in god, you have an anti-religion agenda; if you're not pro-war, you side with the terrorists; if you're against tax cuts, you advocate communism, etc.

I agree that Ron Paul is less impressive under close examination. But within in the GOP camp, I think he blows away the other candidates and his perspective and tone is refreshing. I hope he and Huckabee continue to throw the right-wing establishment in a tizzy.

[MARV]

Ron Paul is too far out of the mainstream to be taken seriously.

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[MikeP]

[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
I agree that Ron Paul is less impressive under close examination. But within in the GOP camp, I think he blows away the other candidates and his perspective and tone is refreshing. I hope he and Huckabee continue to throw the right-wing establishment in a tizzy.
[/quote]
I agree about Ron Paul and his somewhat disappointing presence. I'll still support him. I think his comparatively advanced age might be working against him too. Still, at least Huck and Paul want to drive a stake into the heart of the IRS which I'm all for!

[MARV]

[quote][i]Originally posted by MikeP[/i]
<br>Still, at least Huck and Paul want to drive a stake into the heart of the IRS which I'm all for![/quote]

Yup, that's just about the one major redeeming quality left in the G.O.P. for me.

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[SallyLightfoot]

[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>Ron Paul is too far out of the mainstream to be taken seriously.
[/quote]
I hear this all the time when talking to people about candidates, especially about Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich. It's strange to me that many people have this reaction without having considered the candidates positions. (note: I'm not directing that at you, marvymarv)

It's as though the goal of elections these days is to pick the winner, rather than to support the candidate who's views most closely match your own. If everyone would actually take a moment to examine each candidate's views and proposed policies, we might end up with better people in office. Of course, the media doesn't help inform us at all in this regard.

Here's a tool to help identify candidates: http://www.wqad.com/Global/link.asp?L=259460

[SallyLightfoot]

[quote][i]Originally posted by MikeP[/i]
<br>I agree about Ron Paul and his somewhat disappointing presence. I'll still support him. I think his comparatively advanced age might be working against him too. Still, at least Huck and Paul want to drive a stake into the heart of the IRS which I'm all for!
[/quote]Well, note that Huckabee wants to replace the federal income tax with a national sales tax (which, contrary to his sales pitch would need to be pegged at 30-40%). With the IRS gone, which agency will oversee this massive undertaking (individual revenues will need to be monitored to provide rebates). Well, he'll have to create a whole new agency to manage the national sales tax.

When you look at the Huckabee tax plan, you'll fall out of love with it pretty quickly. The guy has a pretty long record of spending (in his defense, some of it for worthy causes), but when you mix spending with regressive tax cuts, you get the kind of results George W Bush has had.

[edisonoside]

[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>Ron Paul is too far out of the mainstream to be taken seriously.

<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">Own. Rule. All.</a>
[/quote]

Is "mainstream" Bush policy??? If so then mainstream is a bad thing and in need of some Constitutional fixin, If Ron Paul is not Bush mainstream policy then that is a very, very good thing.

[MARV]

[quote][i]Originally posted by edisonoside[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>Ron Paul is too far out of the mainstream to be taken seriously.

<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">Own. Rule. All.</a>
[/quote]

Is "mainstream" Bush policy??? If so then mainstream is a bad thing and in need of some Constitutional fixin, If Ron Paul is not Bush mainstream policy then that is a very, very good thing.
[/quote]

I'm sorry, is Bush running? E-side, I swear to God you have a fucking psychological disorder that makes the George Bush paranoia alarms go off in your head every time you see a thread that has anything remotely to do with anything political. With his popularity numbers low and his own party's candidates already having distanced themselves from him, how in the world is Bush policy mainstream policy?

<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">Own. Rule. All.</a>

[plagiarism]

[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>Ron Paul is too far out of the mainstream to be taken seriously.
[/quote]

Um, no. Paul represents a typical guns n Jesus district in Texas. His message of a smaller government resonates with his constituents despite the fact that his stances cause the district to lose out in government subsidies.

If Limbaugh/Hannity etc. were serious about conservatism, instead of being mouthpieces for the RNC, no one would be saying that Paul is too far out of the mainstream.

[drsevrin]

Anyone catch Ron Paul on Leno tonight? Leno booked him on short notice strictly because he had been screwed by Fox via their excluding him in their NH debate, despite the fact he is now polling 3rd in the state, according to Leno. Fair and balanced? It was obvious Leno has great admiration for him and his views, as do Chris Matthews, Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, Tucker Carlson, Jack Cafferty, Jim Cramer . . .

The "mainstream" GOP platform has drifted to the fringe. Ron Paul represents the traditional Republican foreign policy of non-intervention - the very same "humble" foreign policy that Bush ran on and later abandoned. Practically speaking, Ron Paul may be viewed by a majority of people as a fringe candidate, but I'm reminded of my favorite Orwell quote: "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act".

[MARV]

For the most part, I admire his libertarian sensibilities. But a policy of isolationism, a rejection of evolution, a devout 9/11 "Truther" following and a mousy demeanor make him fall out of the mainstream pretty quickly. Admit it: he's got a way off center fringe following and that's just not gonna jive well with the mainstream.

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