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The Senate rejected amendments that would have imposed greater civil liberties checks on the government’s surveillance powers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/us/13 ... ref=slogin

You would think this would be all over the news instead Roger Clemens!
What is happening in America? And where the hell was Obama and Hilary for the vote? At least John McCain showed up, but he voted for it.

If this was happening in the 80's we would be hearing some great songs about fascism and the government stepping all over the constitution!

Pretty spot-on analysis by Dodd:

"Unfortunately, those who are advocating this notion that you have to give up liberties to be more secure are apparently prevailing,' he said. 'They’re convincing people that we’re at risk either politically, or at risk as a nation."

You can bet a lot of Democrats voted because of the former and many Republicans are wielding this because of the former as well.

I missed Lou last night. His time change doesn't allow me to watch as often as I'd like.

This is a favorite quote of mine,

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"
-Benjamin Franklin

Our forefathers were extremely intelligent men. Their forsight was amazing.

You beat me to the Franklin quote, Marie, but your sentiment is correct. It never ceases to amaze me how easily we throw our liberties away.

Unfortunately, the prevailing attitude is to [i]Be afraid, be very afraid[/i].

I don't understand why the politicians and the people can't shake this. Can't we still be a strong nation without all this capitalizing on people's fear mentalities?

"Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself" from Franklin D. Roosevelt’s First Inaugural Address. Seems to sum it up for me.


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It also made a great beginning to the living color song cult of personality!
Fascism Rules!




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Awesome news! All you folks babbling about "fear" would do well to ask yourselves just what YOU are afraid of.

Does anyone have a list of countries that allow the "secret detention" of their citizens? China, Iran and the old Soviet Union come to mind. [;)]

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[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>Awesome news! All you folks babbling about "fear" would do well to ask yourselves just what YOU are afraid of.
[/quote]

I fear being locked in a room full of poisonous snakes. Or a bunch of poisonous spiders. Crawling all over me. I fear being smothered (seems like a horrible way to go). I fear the thought being sexually assaulted. I fear a food shortage in the world to the point where there is NO food, and we'd all starve to death. OK, and I fear this administration and their underhanded shenanigans that got us into the awful occupation in Iraq. I fear our civil liberties being completely stripped away, allegedly to catch "terrorists."

I do NOT fear bad guys called "terrorists".

I fear people who are only out for themselves and those interests they represent who are willing to sell out their own country for a profit and stop at nothing to cover their own ass.




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[quote]Originally posted by marie3
[br]The Senate rejected amendments that would have imposed greater civil liberties checks on the government’s surveillance powers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/us/13 ... ref=slogin

You would think this would be all over the news instead Roger Clemens!
What is happening in America? And where the hell was Obama and Hilary for the vote? At least John McCain showed up, but he voted for it.

If this was happening in the 80's we would be hearing some great songs about fascism and the government stepping all over the constitution!

[/quote]

The vote was so lopsided, 68-29 or so, that Hill and Barry's vote wouldn't have changed things. The outcome was known in advance.

Effing craven, callow, ignorant democrats! The dems were voted in to curb the excesses of the administration, and instead they've rolled over again and again at the first sign of a fight.

Constitutionally, this country is adrift. We don't even know who we are anymore. Who knows where this will end up, and if the citizenry has the balls to do anything about it.

[quote][i]Originally posted by schwenko[/i]
<br>[quote]Originally posted by marie3
[br]The Senate rejected amendments that would have imposed greater civil liberties checks on the government’s surveillance powers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/us/13 ... ref=slogin

You would think this would be all over the news instead Roger Clemens!
What is happening in America? And where the hell was Obama and Hilary for the vote? At least John McCain showed up, but he voted for it.

If this was happening in the 80's we would be hearing some great songs about fascism and the government stepping all over the constitution!

[/quote]

The vote was so lopsided, 68-29 or so, that Hill and Barry's vote wouldn't have changed things. The outcome was known in advance.
[/quote]

Yes I know that. But it would be nice for the two people running for president to be there on such an important vote. McCain missed a voting on the economic stimulus package last week, but he did show up to vote yes on this one. Though the votes wouldn't change anything, it shows us where they stand on these issues.

It is amazing how lopsided the voting was. [:(]

Bush's head of the DOJ office of legal counsel, Stephen Bradbury:

"Let me be clear, though: There has been no determination by the justice department that the use of waterboarding, under any circumstances, would be lawful under current law."

Bush interview last night in response to if US can still claim moral high ground with things like waterboarding go on:

"Absolutely. We believe in human rights and human dignity. We believe in the human condition. We believe in freedom. And we're willing to take the lead."

I guess if you repeat the mantra enough, you start believing it yourself. I'm not saying that we're anything like terrorists, but I'd feel more comfortable with an even wider gap.