Art: A Lesson In OBJECTIVITY & PARAMETERS

[MARV]

[quote][i]Originally posted by fanciz[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by Blir[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by fanciz[/i]
<br>IMO Sunrise is a good song, it has some gothic flavor and is reminiscent of Joy Division but is it really representative of NO? I think that when someone not familiar with a band requests for a little guidance we should set aside our subjectivity to give an objective advice independently of our own liking.....
[/quote]
You have got to be kidding me! IT'S ALL SUBJECTIVE!!! Are you freaking delusional?! Wait, nevermind.
[/quote]

I guess it's a common mistake to think that there is no objectivity in music. There are parameters in terms of creativity, melody, rhythm, vocals etc. It's a skill which can be developed....Some dudes will never get it.
[/quote]

The pupils of NWO await your dissertation Prof. Fanciz.....

<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">I dig whales.</a>

[Frau_Blucher]

Corollary #1 in Art or Science: there are no absolutes and never trust the fool who thinks there are.


This is different from opinion of course. Sure as hell I have plenty of those. I don't intend to impose those on anyone or suppose that they're better than others through some self-deluding megalomania.

No really, I don't! [:D]

[MARV]

So essentially Blir, what you're saying is that art, like music for example - just an example - is absolutely SUBjective? As per the saying, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"? Wow. Well I sure am glad to hear that because I was afraid I would never find the Parameters of Creativity et. al. rulebook. To think, that there would actually be limits or thresholds never to be crossed in the creation of art.

**shudder**

But I digress.....I wish to hear a more OBjective umm..... [i]opinion[/i]

<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">I dig whales.</a>

[SwampThing]

I don't know who I'm agree with here but Music be it's very definition is: "a natural intuitive phenomenon operating in the three worlds of time, pitch, energy, and under the three distinct and interrelated organization structures of rhythm, harmony, and melody"

When an artist decides to release something that is devoid of these elements I like to call it "anti-music". But it's still art (just not music [:D])

[MARV]

[quote][i]Originally posted by SwampThing[/i]
<br>I don't know who I'm agree with here but Music be it's very definition is: "a natural intuitive phenomenon operating in the three worlds of time, pitch, energy, and under the three distinct and interrelated organization structures of rhythm, harmony, and melody"

When an artist decides to release something that is devoid of these elements I like to call it "anti-music". But it's still art (just not music [:D])[/quote]

Oh, well in that case we can agree that Joy Division & New Order made music. This is where the whole thing started Swampy, just to get this thread into context:
http://www.nwoutpost.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10714

<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">I dig whales.</a>

[SwampThing]

I just read it. "Sunrise" is a great song. (As well as the whole Low-Life record) It is representative of New Order, because well, New Order likes guitars and will "rock it" every once in a while! Hell if they didn't, I probably wouldnt be as big of a fan. Anyways, there are a few New Order songs I am critical of but it's really subjective.

[MARV]

Swampinator, Low-Life is an artistic achievement of the highest.....[i]order.[/i] From the exquisitely and typographically designed vellum band to the closing notes of Face Up, the album proved that New Order were a force to be reckoned with and were'nt leaving anytime soon. This was probably the first album that I listened to over and over and over again and again and again. A required part of any eighties music collection [b]in my humble OPINION</B> that is.

<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">I dig whales.</a>

[SwampThing]

[quote]Swampinator, Low-Life is an artistic achievement of the highest[/quote] Agreed. I remember close to the day I purchased this (2nd week in June 1985) I had just graduated from High School and picked it up on the way home from work at Tower Records (open til' midnight!). I listened too it non-stop that summer and snatched up all the import 12" singles as well. They really set the bar high for themseleves on that one.

[Frau_Blucher]

[quote][i]Originally posted by SwampThing[/i]
<br>I don't know who I'm agree with here but Music be it's very definition is: "a natural intuitive phenomenon operating in the three worlds of time, pitch, energy, and under the three distinct and interrelated organization structures of rhythm, harmony, and melody"

When an artist decides to release something that is devoid of these elements I like to call it "anti-music". But it's still art (just not music [:D])
[/quote]
Good stuff Swampy. I've studied classical piano most of my life since 3yrs old, but never seriously studied music itself. But it's probably safe to say that most of the stuff we're talking about is at the very minimum "music". [;)]

[Frau_Blucher]

[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>So essentially Blir, what you're saying is that art, like music for example - just an example - is absolutely SUBjective?
[/quote]
I don't know if it's ABSOLUTE - because then that would be an absolute [;)] - but beyond a certain threshold, yeah, right? If an alien lands on earth and asks for good music, I'm not gonna recommend listening to DearGod farting out the Star Spangled Banner, but there's a hell of a lot to chose from besides that's gonna be pretty damned subjective.


(luv ya DG [:o)])

[Bitter Almonds]

[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>So essentially Blir, what you're saying is that art, like music for example - just an example - is absolutely SUBjective? As per the saying, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"? Wow. Well I sure am glad to hear that because I was afraid I would never find the Parameters of Creativity et. al. rulebook. To think, that there would actually be limits or thresholds never to be crossed in the creation of art.

**shudder**

But I digress.....I wish to hear a more OBjective umm..... [i]opinion[/i]

<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">I dig whales.</a>
[/quote]

I don't know the rules, but I think of "art" as another form of communication, and to communicate an idea you have in mind effectively to another and have them understand it/see it/hear it the same way, there should be some kind of methodology. It's not as if NewOrder record things without planning and editing. "Limits" and "thresholds" are placed there by the artist themselves in order to have some coherence. Some music has mathematical background, right? Timing, loudness, clarity, fidelity - all that stuff. That's objective, I'd think. I just don't possess the know-how to describe it properly in those terms, so I have to talk about art for the subjective qualities.

[hutter]

Y'all can debate about art all you want, but I doubt any of you would give Toby Keith a pass. I know I sure as hell wouldn't.

"Never give a sucker an even break, or smarten up a chump" W.C. Fields

[DearGod]

Hey Blir!!!!

I've got a new tune...

Heartlight... a nice Neil Diamond cover full of bass I mean ermmm Gas[:o)][:D]

[My Aural Stimulator]

Umm, DearGod, that would be Neil baby's b-side dub, entitled "Fartlight."