New Wave Outpost Forum

Here they are gang, the results from 50 respondents who listed their Top 25 New Wave artists based on their definition of Top, Best, Favorite, what New Wave was, whatever. There were 308 bands who got votes, but I cut the list off at 140 - where the list got into a big mass of single votees. Not a lot of shocks in and of themselves.

The Points are the sum of everyone's votes based on the following system:

1st = 20
2nd = 19
3rd =18
4th = 17
5th = 16
6-10th = 10
11-15th = 6
16 - 20th = 4
21-25th = 2

An additional point was given per number of times a band was voted for, ie the "Count". Also for any band only voted for once, I cut that number in half in order to not overweigh a single very high score by an outlier. The first basic tabular results are below but there will be two more posts with more interesting breakdowns!

# -- Artist Name -- Points -- Count
1 -- New Order -- 413 -- 33
2 -- Cure -- 356 -- 31
3 -- Depeche Mode -- 332 -- 31
4 -- Clash -- 324 -- 24
5 -- OMD -- 263 -- 25
6 -- Smiths -- 229 -- 25
7 -- U2 -- 226 -- 15
8 -- Echo & the Bunnymen -- 221 -- 25
9 -- Ramones -- 205 -- 18
10 -- Blondie -- 196 -- 17
11 -- Joy Division -- 194 -- 14
12 -- Duran Duran -- 179 -- 18
13 -- Cars -- 175 -- 16
14 -- Simple Minds -- 157 -- 22
15 -- Police -- 151 -- 16
16 -- Siouxsie & the Banshees -- 150 -- 16
17 -- Tears for Fears -- 148 -- 21
18 -- Pet Shop Boys -- 142 -- 13
19 -- Kraftwerk -- 142 -- 11
20 -- R.E.M. -- 141 -- 14
21 -- Psychedelic Furs -- 136 -- 17
22 -- Human League -- 134 -- 15
23 -- Devo -- 127 -- 16
24 -- B-52s -- 127 -- 13
25 -- XTC -- 114 -- 14
26 -- Jam -- 113 -- 12
26 -- Ultravox -- 113 -- 12
28 -- A Flock of Seagulls -- 105 -- 14
29 -- Talking Heads -- 104 -- 11
30 -- Buzzcocks -- 103 -- 8
31 -- Chameleons -- 98 -- 10
32 -- Pretenders -- 95 -- 12
33 -- Japan -- 90 -- 8
34 -- Fixx -- 89 -- 7
35 -- Stranglers -- 82 -- 8
36 -- Elvis Costello -- 81 -- 9
37 -- A-Ha -- 80 -- 7
38 -- Roxy Music -- 79 -- 7
39 -- China Crisis -- 77 -- 10
40 -- ABC -- 77 -- 7
41 -- Damned -- 72 -- 5
42 -- Church -- 70 -- 10
43 -- Killing Joke -- 70 -- 6
44 -- Oingo Boingo -- 68 -- 8
45 -- INXS -- 68 -- 7
46 -- Yaz -- 66 -- 12
47 -- Split Enz -- 65 -- 7
48 -- Talk Talk -- 65 -- 5
49 -- David Bowie -- 62 -- 7
50 -- Cocteau Twins -- 62 -- 6
51 -- Alphaville -- 60 -- 5
52 -- Replacements -- 55 -- 7
53 -- Eurythmics -- 53 -- 6
54 -- Cabaret Volatire -- 50 -- 4
55 -- English Beat -- 49 -- 9
56 -- Violent Femmes -- 49 -- 6
57 -- Visage -- 49 -- 4
58 -- Big Country -- 48 -- 8
59 -- Sex Pistols -- 48 -- 4
60 -- Gang of Four -- 47 -- 7
60 -- Heaven 17 -- 47 -- 7
62 -- X -- 47 -- 6
63 -- Bauhaus -- 47 -- 4
64 -- Erasure -- 46 -- 6
64 -- Husker Du -- 46 -- 6
66 -- Gary Numan -- 46 -- 5
67 -- Sisters of Mercy -- 46 -- 4
68 -- Missing Persons -- 45 -- 7
69 -- Waterboys -- 45 -- 5
70 -- Squeeze -- 43 -- 7
71 -- Men Without Hats -- 43 -- 4
71 -- The The -- 43 -- 4
73 -- Madness -- 41 -- 5
74 -- Joe Jackson -- 39 -- 7
75 -- Altered Images -- 38 -- 6
75 -- Love & Rockets -- 38 -- 6
77 -- Dead Kennedys -- 38 -- 4
78 -- Rachel Sweet -- 38 -- 2
79 -- Soft Cell -- 37 -- 5
80 -- Icehouse -- 36 -- 5
81 -- Shriekback -- 36 -- 4
81 -- Thomas Dolby -- 36 -- 4
83 -- Propaganda -- 35 -- 5
84 -- Alarm -- 34 -- 4
84 -- Blancmange -- 34 -- 4
84 -- Prefab Sprout -- 34 -- 4
87 -- Scritti Politti -- 34 -- 3
88 -- Camouflage -- 34 -- 2
89 -- B-Movie -- 33 -- 4
90 -- Front 242 -- 32 -- 3
91 -- Iggy Pop -- 32 -- 3
92 -- Adam & the Ants -- 31 -- 5
93 -- Television -- 31 -- 3
94 -- They Might Be Giants -- 30 -- 6
95 -- Marshall Crenshaw -- 29 -- 3
96 -- Skinny Puppy -- 29 -- 2
96 -- Wall of Voodoo -- 29 -- 2
98 -- YMO -- 28 -- 3
99 -- Big Audio Dynamite -- 27 -- 3
99 -- Comsat Angels -- 27 -- 3
101 -- GBH -- 27 -- 2
102 -- 20-20 -- 25 -- 3
103 -- PIL -- 25 -- 3
103 -- Yello -- 25 -- 3
105 -- Book of Love -- 24 -- 2
105 -- Wire -- 24 -- 2
107 -- Berlin -- 22 -- 4
107 -- Midnight Oil -- 22 -- 4
109 -- Durutti Column -- 22 -- 2
109 -- Gene Loves Jezebel -- 22 -- 2
109 -- Ministry -- 22 -- 2
109 -- Stiff Little Fingers -- 22 -- 2
113 -- Aztec Camera -- 21 -- 3
113 -- Billy Idol-GenX -- 21 -- 3
113 -- Go-Gos -- 21 -- 3
113 -- Guadalcanal Diary -- 21 -- 3
113 -- Plimsouls -- 21 -- 3
113 -- Thompson Twins -- 21 -- 3
119 -- Pere Ubu -- 21 -- 2
120 -- Bronski Beat -- 20 -- 4
121 -- Romeo Void -- 20 -- 2
122 -- Agent Orange -- 19 -- 3
122 -- Kate Bush -- 19 -- 3
124 -- dBs -- 18 -- 2
124 -- Dead or Alive -- 18 -- 2
124 -- Madonna -- 18 -- 2
124 -- Single Gun Theory -- 18 -- 2
124 -- Sparks -- 18 -- 2
129 -- Modern English -- 17 -- 3
130 -- M -- 16 -- 2
131 -- Anything Box -- 15 -- 2
132 -- Associates -- 14 -- 2
132 -- Cetu Javu -- 14 -- 2
132 -- Fall -- 14 -- 2
132 -- Patti Smith -- 14 -- 2
132 -- Pixies -- 14 -- 2
132 -- Romantics -- 14 -- 2
138 -- Hoodoo Gurus -- 13 -- 3
138 -- Level 42 -- 13 -- 3
140 -- Any Trouble -- 12 -- 2
140 -- Kajagoogoo -- 12 -- 2
140 -- Spandau Ballet -- 12 -- 2
140 -- Specials -- 12 -- 2

Here's the real meat of the vote below. This is a hierarchical clustering map of how similar or dissimilar peoples' votes were. A Spierman Rank Correlation (suitable for ordinal-type ranked scores) using a Complete Linkage Clustering method was used to generate this similarity map. The Reds indicate the amount of points while Blacks mean no vote at all. The Dendogram, or Tree, on top indicates how closely people clustered together. The lower down on a tree you are, the more similar you are to that person. The Red Numbers indicate the Coefficient of Correlation...basically a percent similarity. The Top 100 Bands are listed on the side. The Group Average, "AVG", is also listed as a Virtual Outpost Member.

Most interesting to note here is that LovePlusOne is not only most similar to the Average but more similar to that Average than anyone else is to eachother with a 69% correlation. Amazing! BirdMadGirl and Surly are also in this same "family tree". It's also curious that those inbred Long Islanders, Abacab, 2Nu and MarvyMarv are also in the same tree, although Marie3 has been spared that dubious company! Going over to the next branch, SwampThing, Blir, and KYYX4ever are very tightly correlated...something we've seen before, and it's damned pleasurable company, thank you. One more tree over, the Master of Our Domain MikeP has a big similarity to Egg-Roger, while DayGloJo and newcomer TomD also share that good company. You can see other correlations yourself. Note the unusally high incident of paired members as opposed to tightly clustered trios or quartets - hey, that person may be your musical Familiar. I'll just add a last note about how WAY off the grid FortyFives tastes are from anyone else based on these criteria - good for you, and Wolver, Coop41, and ShortysGrowingABeard too!

<img src="http://www.pbase.com/myirwin/image/53363765/original.jpg"

Not shown is actually another tree that can be generated running down the vertical axis. This would show which Bands clustered together. This basically means, if you picked this band, you had an "x" likelihood of picking some other band in that same cluster. Of course this only has meaning for bands with a high enough number of votes to make the Coefficient of Correlation significant. Here's some samples.

New Order, The Cure, and The Smiths appeared in a very tight tree - 80% between Cure and Smiths and 71% between them and New Order. If you picked one of these guys, you were likely to have picked one of the others, even with a similar ranking. Echo also falls in there at 58% while Simple Minds and TFF join in at 41%

<img src="http://www.pbase.com/myirwin/image/53363768/original.jpg">

Not too far away are U2, The Cars and REM who are 58% correlated to eachother. This kinda feels right, doesn't it?

<img src="http://www.pbase.com/myirwin/image/53363774/original.jpg">

In another very tight tree were Depeche Mode and OMD at 73% and Blondie joining in at 43%. What's really curious about this tree is that it only correlated to the other big New Order-led tree by single digits! Meaning that choosing some of these guys was a very weak indicator that you'd actually choose some of those other guys. That's a real trip considering how high all of these guys were ranked.

<img src="http://www.pbase.com/myirwin/image/53363801/original.jpg">

Lastly, there are a couple of pairings that I find very interesting. The Clash and The Jam were stuck together at 56% - makes total sense! Also Joy Division and Siouxsie are joined at 51% - dark idols of the late 70s. How cool is that?!

<img src="http://www.pbase.com/myirwin/image/53363804/original.jpg">

<img src="http://www.pbase.com/myirwin/image/53363805/original.jpg">

Very cool! [8D] I love this geeky stuff! Very interesting correlations among bands. It makes total sense that people would like New Order, Cure, Smiths, and Echo and the Bunnymen--but I'm surprised Joy Division is not more highly correlated. The correlations among forum members is also interesting, as are the few rogue members who are not correlated with anyone!

Thank you, Blir, for another great statistical insight into our preferences.

Awesome Blir! This is fascinating stuff. Quite a few surprises for me. OMD placed a lot higher than I would have thought (not that that's a bad thing necessarily. It just surprised me).

Well done as usual Blir. Very cool.

Like Swampthing, I'd be interested to see if there really are 2 new wave "camps": punk/postpunk and synth/dance. Is there any way to test if there's any truth to this?

[quote][i]Originally posted by Dave[/i]
<br>Well done as usual Blir. Very cool.

Like Swampthing, I'd be interested to see if there really are 2 new wave "camps": punk/postpunk and synth/dance. Is there any way to test if there's any truth to this?
[/quote]

YES! Do it Blir! That would be very interesting. Extraordinary work as usual Blir! Sheesh, I am simply amazed at the amount of work that you put into these studies. And the results are very interesting to see. Wow. Great job.

<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">I dig whales.</a>

Oh yeah, these guys wanted to just say a little something:

<img src="http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/marvymarv/neworder.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

"Cheers, thanx alot mates!"

<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">I dig whales.</a>

Wow! Once again Blir, thanks for the effort. Glad to once again share a branch with you.

My thoughts:
OMD edging out The Smiths, this one suprised me. It suprised me that OMD made the top 20! Back in the day, OMD wasn't that popular within my circle of friends.

B-52's placed higher than I expected. Seems they've received more than a few bashings from members of this forum over the last 3 years.

Pet Shops Boys placed higher than I expected. Their following on this forum must be stronger than I thought. (I suspect the synth/dance camp brought their score up!)

ABC higher than the Church! OMG! Damn you MTV!!!!!

Weird the OMD and Heaven 17 were so for appart. I always think of them togther. Same for Pet Shop Boys and Erasure, seems that all the Erasure fans back in the day were rabid PSB fans.

EDIT: Added some more comments.

[quote][i]Originally posted by Dave[/i]
<br>Like Swampthing, I'd be interested to see if there really are 2 new wave "camps": punk/postpunk and synth/dance. Is there any way to test if there's any truth to this?
[/quote]
Hmmm, this might be do-able. But I may have to arbitrarily assign bands into post-punkish or synthish. One would get a negative number designation while other got a positive to keep it simple and binomial.. I'm off!!!

BTW Marv, it's really pretty simple once you get the workflow going - maybe an hour with the use of Excel pivot tables and public domain visualization tools like Cluster and Java Tree Tool. Elementary! [8D]

2nd BTW Swamp, I think your observations just point to the fact that "The Loud" doesn't necessarily equate to "The Good" or "The Norm" around here. I mean, look how loud I am! [:o)]

I just noticed Madonna beat The Fall. What the fucking fuck?[:(!]

Motors, me and you were the only 2 who voted for the Fall. BTW - Do you have their peel sessions box set?

Were we really? That's a damn shame. [:(]

Yes, I have the boxset. One of the best investments I've ever made! [8D]

Now THIS be some top-notch New Wave. I wouldn't trust anyone else's opinion. The numbers say it all[8D]

Great analysis Blir. Just to make sure I understand correctly I had a correlation coefficient to Hexicon (or vice-versa) of r = 0.27, so a positive correlation but not super-strong (i.e. closer to 1). Right? (I know some biostats for medical literature review and research, but am no means an expert at it). Thanks for your hard work. I look forward to your sub-analyses.