Anyone here an Alternate History buff?

[NuWaveRx]

For those of you for whom straight Sci-Fi is not geeky enough, anyone here into alternate history (also called "What If? History")? It basically takes key points in world history and postulates what happens if things went the other way (the classics being the South won the Civil War or the Axis won WW II). Harry Turtledove is one of the masters of this sub-genre--and he is written several multi-book epics around different themes.

However I've just finished Alternate Generals II, and one of the short stories contained there is Michael F. Flynn's "Southern Strategy," In it A post WW II American South is invaded and occupied by an armed force send by the League of Nations in response to a plea by African-Americans to help quell the rise of lynchings and racial oppression in the 1950s. Many famous people in our timeline have different roles because of the occupation. For example, Adlai Stevenson is a senator attempting to negotiate a compromise candidate between the Northern and Southern factions of the Democratic party. George Wallace is a "Resistance" leader trying to oust the LON Forces. It was a great story that makes you think of the definition of "insurgency" or "self-determination" especially in these times.

Anyone else like this sub-genre of fiction?

[hexicon]

Mr. Hex likes Harry Turtledove a lot. I'm more into the sword and sorcery aspects of science fiction. In that vein, though it doesn't quite qualify as alternate history, is Lammas Night" by Katherine Kurtz, which is about how a coven of patriotic English witches helps with the Battle of Britain and thwarts the Germans' attempts to invade England.

[NuWaveRx]

[quote][i]Originally posted by hexicon[/i]
<br>Mr. Hex likes Harry Turtledove a lot. I'm more into the sword and sorcery aspects of science fiction. In that vein, though it doesn't quite qualify as alternate history, is Lammas Night" by Katherine Kurtz, which is about how a coven of patriotic English witches helps with the Battle of Britain and thwarts the Germans' attempts to invade England.
[/quote]

That sounds quite good--and kinda ironic given the Nazis' known interest in the occult--I'll have to give that a try

[WolverineSyr]

I'm always interested in the "what if" stuff - although I haven't read much. I recall reading Fatherland many years go. I don't remember much of it now - but I liked it.

Although this isn't about history per se, this huge website is a really cool, speculative look at what might have happened if dinosaurs never went extinct:
http://www.bowdoin.edu/~dbensen/Spec/Index.html

I know, I'm a geek - but I love this stuff! [8D]

[NuWaveRx]

Wolvie, allow me to suggest:

1.The Best Alternate History Stories of the 20th Century edited by Harry Turtledove--includes many classics of the genre including Stanley Robinson's "The Lucky Strike" (What if at the last minute the pilots of the Enola Gay disobeyed orders and dropped the A-Bomb into the sea as a demonstration to Japan without loss of life) and Ward Moore's classic novella "Bring the Jubilee", the first classic if the South won the civil war story.

2.What If?: The World's Foremost Military Historians Imagine What Might Have Been edited by Robert Cowley. These are more essays than stories by some of the biggest names in historians including Stephen E. Ambrose, Caleb Carr, John Keegan, and David McCullough

3. Hitler Victorious--edited by Greg Benford. An entire collection of Axis victory in WWII stories

4.The Guns of the South--Harry Turtledove (IMO) best book about the time-travelling racist white South Africans going back to the Civil War and arming Lee's men with modern guns and artilery.

5. The Man in the High Tower--Phil K. Dick's Classic novel of a Japnesese occupation of California after WWII

any of these would be a good entry in this genre.[:)]

[edisonoside]

There's the movie - CSA: The Confederate States of America.

[Frau_Blucher]

That's silly NuWaveRx. The most authoritative discussions of "What If" were on Saturday Night Live in the 70s. Of course, "What If Superman Were Born in Nazi Germany" is the most intriguing episode...

"Each week on the show, we ask a hypothetical question about a specific historical event. Tonight's question, like all our questions, comes from a Mr. Kevin O'Donnell, age 10, a paperboy from Alton, Illinois. Kevin asks, "What If Superman grew up in Germany, instead of America?"

John Belushi's turn as Jor-El is always a gut-buster...

"My Son. My Son. I am your father, Jor-El. Your mother and I have sent you to Earth the only survivor of Krypton. As you hear this, I will have been dead many centuries, but will be reborn as Charlie Rich."

I never caught the follow-up episode of "What If All Woman Had Snouzer Faces?" But I'm actually a bigger fan of future histories. This will REALLY show the geek in me, but those Asimov "Foundation" series and Star Trek timelines are kind of, um, fascinating. [:I] "Man in the High Tower" was indeed great.

[NuWaveRx]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Blir[/i]
<br>That's silly NuWaveRx. The most authoritative discussions of "What If" were on Saturday Night Live in the 70s. Of course, "What If Superman Were Born in Nazi Germany" is the most intriguing episode...

"Each week on the show, we ask a hypothetical question about a specific historical event. Tonight's question, like all our questions, comes from a Mr. Kevin O'Donnell, age 10, a paperboy from Alton, Illinois. Kevin asks, "What If Superman grew up in Germany, instead of America?"

John Belushi's turn as Jor-El is always a gut-buster...

"My Son. My Son. I am your father, Jor-El. Your mother and I have sent you to Earth the only survivor of Krypton. As you hear this, I will have been dead many centuries, but will be reborn as Charlie Rich."

[/quote]

Good lord, I remember that episode, first time I've even thought about that particular SNL in years--indeed very funny. Now if only Jim Belushi would play Jor-el in the movie this summer...[:p]

[Bitter Almonds]

It's sort of related to this topic, but I like the "alternate universe" kind of stories. Remember that show [i]Sliders[/i]? The first season was pretty cool. There's also the film "Wings Of Honneamise", which takes place in an alternate Earth. The video game Steel Empire for the old Sega Genesis and Forgotten Worlds for the PC Engine had weird shit going on as well. Once you get to the nitty-gritty details, though, I sort of lose interest. You gotta be a history trivia buff to get the full effect of reading those kinds of novels.

[stella]

I'm not a big fantasy fan but I love Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series. I most enjoy speculative Science Fiction. I recently tossed 20 years of Fantasy and SF magazines and SF books of the month, hard backs, no one wants them and the magazines were falling apart

[hutter]

Both Marvel Comics (What If?) and DC Comics (Elseworlds) have several alternate reality mini- series and one-shot comics. Most are lousy, but "Kingdom Come" from DC rates pretty high. "Squadron Supreme" from Marvel and "The Watchmen" from DC were two excellent 80's series that exploited the alternate reality formula to good effect. Alan Moore's "Top Ten" from ABC comics is another great alternate worlds series, focusing on a police force that spans over hundreds of alternate earths.

<a href="http://electricdreams71.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">My Blog: <FONT COLOR="CCFF33">E</FONT><FONT COLOR="0000CC">l</FONT><FONT COLOR="CC00CC">e</FONT><FONT COLOR="003300">c</FONT><FONT COLOR="FFCC33">t</FONT><FONT COLOR="9999CC">r</FONT><FONT COLOR="003399">i</FONT><FONT COLOR="FF3333">c</FONT><FONT COLOR="CC00CC">D</FONT><FONT COLOR="003300">r</FONT><FONT COLOR="FFCC33">e</FONT><FONT COLOR="9999CC">a</FONT><FONT COLOR="003399">m</FONT><FONT COLOR="FF3333">s</FONT></a>

[ben_at_work]

i've already mentioned in a few posts "the plot against america" a great what if'er. lindberge becomes president, nazi sympathizer? eerie!

[NuWaveRx]

[quote][i]Originally posted by ben_at_work[/i]
<br>i've already mentioned in a few posts "the plot against america" a great what if'er. lindberge becomes president, nazi sympathizer? eerie!
[/quote]

I read The Plot Against America. I thought it was OK, although I wish Roth would've focused a bit more on the world events in that alternate timeline. Lindburgh was an extreme right-wing isolationist (and anti-semite), and given his popularity in the '30s, it certainly wouldn't have been out of the realm of possibility for his ascendency to president.

Hutter I agree with your praise of Watchmen and Kindgdom Come. I wouldn't consider them alternate history, however. Most (although not all) alternative history is based on the premise that things could have actually occured a different way had a key point in our history not occured the way it did. As superpowers don't exist in our timeline (although several on this board have super-intellect concerning NW), I would consider them straight SF or fantasy.

[ben_at_work]

[quote][i]Originally posted by NuWaveRx[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by ben_at_work[/i]
<br>i've already mentioned in a few posts "the plot against america" a great what if'er. lindberge becomes president, nazi sympathizer? eerie!
[/quote]

I read The Plot Against America. I thought it was OK, although I wish Roth would've focused a bit more on the world events in that alternate timeline. Lindburgh was an extreme right-wing isolationist (and anti-semite), and given his popularity in the '30s, it certainly wouldn't have been out of the realm of possibility for his ascendency to president.

[/quote]

Yeah, i noticed that too. He could have done so much with other stuff going on in history during that time. Good call!

[stella]

Try White Lotus by John Hersey. America and it's people slaves to Asians who run the whole world, seen through the eyes of one slave women.