US Border

[ThunderLips]

[quote][i]Originally posted by stella[/i]
<br>Illegal, not legal, breaking the law. It happens to be mostly Mexicans in CA but I'm not against them for being Mexicans, I'm against them because they're illegal and harmful. I'm against Companies that hire them and I would be against those who use their services except for the fact that there is no competition to hire. By working 'off the books' without benefits, taxes and worker rights these guys save their employers big time and honest guys can't compete.

It seems to be also true that Americans are unable to do the work. As a former CEO of HP pointed out, Americans show up willing to learn, Asians and East Indians show up ready to work. Our educational system does not seem to prepare Americans for the job market.


[/quote]

America's grade school system is garbage. But the higher up you go in education, the better it becomes. Most of "preparing for the job market" comes from a personal drive to succeed and not education per se.

Illegals are a tricky subject. Being an immigrant I prefer the legal route but I also understand the financial reasons behind using their labor.

[phillyidol]

Good points!

[stella]

What I would like to see are some good ideas on changing things. Myself I think it has to start with Mexico providing jobs and benefits at home, but I know it's far from that simple. Any solution would have to consider the whole problem, not just the Illegals but the demand for their services.

Thanks for the info. TL it gives me hope.

[djsoss]

Imigrants have been comming here for over 200 yrs. or more. That includes Irish,Italians,Asians, and Mexicans, what's the dammn difference between then and now ???




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[WolverineSyr]

[quote][i]Originally posted by djsoss[/i]
<br>Imigrants have been comming here for over 200 yrs. or more. That includes Irish,Italians,Asians, and Mexicans, what's the dammn difference between then and now ???

[/quote]

It's not about people who come here legally, Soss. It's about people who come here illegally, do not pay taxes and use government & state services to pay for health care & financial assistance. It's also about employers hiring these people for very little money & taking advantage of them.

[ben_at_work]

Yeah Wolvorine... A lot of the wineries I work with hire tons of illegals. They always get calls from the government saying "hey, this employees Social Security #" doesnt match your employee" They hire a lot of Belizians as well as Hispanics. They hire a lot of French too but they are the wine makers and usually have visas.

[KYYX4ever]

many good points, everyone.

here in the Southwest, illegals are overwhelming the hospitals and schools. The public hosptials cannot turn away a patient, regardless of their legal status. B/c illegals do not have health insurance, they use the ERs and Urgent Care facilities for their primary care. The ERs are totally packed. It drives up health care costs for everyone.
And the school districts here have passed regulations stating that they can no longer ask for a potential student's legal status. The school must take in all students. It's resulted in more crowded classrooms and schools. Having so many students who cannot speak English has resulted in a tremendous burden on bilingual and ESL teachers and classes. ESL and bilingual classes are often the first to get cut in the face of budget difficulties. Under the ridiculous No Child Gets Ahead Act (er, I mean, Left Behind), these kids often just get dumped into regular classrooms and the teachers are expected to "adjust" their teaching practices so as to not leave these kids behind. Not to mention their families who cannot speak English, and therefore extra support services are called for, many of which the schools and districts cannot afford.
And it goes on and on. The ripple effects are enormous.
As for the argument that these folks do the work for cheaper than American workers...well, we must soon have our roof retarred/regravelled. I called around for price quotes and asked if their workers were documented or not. After a lot of hemming and hawing, the answer was usually no. Finally found a company that hires only American citizens. As you can guess, their price was far higher. Time to start saving up even more $$. Argh.

[SwampThing]

[quote]Finally found a company that hires only American citizens. As you can guess, their price was far higher.[/quote] Good for you! I strive to avoid business that use illegal immigrants and/or outsource too foreign labor. Some call me a fool for paying higher prices but I have to stick with my principles.

<font size="1">"I've been playing the joker and dumbass for too long here, out of pity for the intellectually challenged that frequent this site" -- Hutter</font>

[WolverineSyr]

I tend not to pay attention if someone's Mexican or think about their status, only because there are so few Mexicans up here. Most of them travel through in the summer and fall as migrant workers on the farms & orchards.
It never occurred to me last year that the entire crew of mexican roofers Home Depot sent over to put up a new roof could be legal or illegal. Not that it matters because they did a great job, but I wonder...and I wonder if Home Depot makes a practice for hiring super cheap labor and screwing the customer. Like I should be suprised....

[KYYX4ever]

That's the thing. They DO do a great job. It's complicated. On the one hand, I could care less what the nationality is of any worker. I'm just looking for a job well done, if I can't do it myself. And the job roofers do is usually good work. But on the other hand, these workers should be paid fairly and they should pay taxes and they should have access to health care. B/c (and I may get shot down for this) otherwise I have the uncomfortable feeling that I've hired slaves. And that just sucks. For them, even more.[:(]

[stella]

You could give the slaves big tips. Illegals are here for money and I'm sure a lot of them are doing nicely. Take it back to Mexico and it’s worth double.

It does seem that they are good workers. This could be because mostly those who can work really hard make the trip. These are not Mexico's educated intellectuals, homosexuals or handicapped. No offense intended to anyone.

As to Americans not being able or willing to do the work it has to be a little of both. Let's face it we are a FAT people. Overweight kids are a major problem and the adults, geez. Could it be that a diet of rice and beans is better than one of high fructose corn syrup and hormone saturated meat?

[hutter]

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[WolverineSyr]

[quote][i]Originally posted by KYYX4ever[/i]
<br>That's the thing. They DO do a great job. It's complicated. On the one hand, I could care less what the nationality is of any worker. I'm just looking for a job well done, if I can't do it myself. And the job roofers do is usually good work. But on the other hand, these workers should be paid fairly and they should pay taxes and they should have access to health care. B/c (and I may get shot down for this) otherwise I have the uncomfortable feeling that I've hired slaves. And that just sucks. For them, even more.[:(]
[/quote]

That's my point too - I don't care who they are, as long as they do a good job. You won't get an argument from me on the slave labor part either - which what I have been thinking all along. It's great to hire cheap labor, but there's a lot of other crap that goes along with it. Things like intimidation, exploitation, etc.

With that said, I feel like if you work here - then you need to pay taxes like the rest of us.

I have this weird feeling that the whole nationalism thing has been created as a smoke screen. That's not saying it's an unimportant issue - but why now? What's changed in the past 100 years? Seems like it's taking our minds off bigger issues.

I honestly don't know though - like I said, it's not a issue I see up here. We're more worried about those dastardly Canadians sneaking over & stealing our cheese.