Let's Play: New Wave or Not New Wave?!!!!

[mhochuli]

Euro Life - I totally agree with you. There was a ton of great NW music between '85 and '90.

Shovel ... I'm sure you'll get different opinions ... they definitely had the look ... but I personally thought they were a little too pop/top 40 for my taste. Maybe that makes them power pop ... I dunno ... I'm not a genre expert

[uofsc93]

[quote][i]Originally posted by oldpunk83[/i]
<br>Early Police (pulling mussels from the shell)-yes Sting-no no no
Kim Carnes-hell no
Pet Shop Boys-yes
Malcolm Mclaren-yes
Beastie Boys-hell no
Prince-no no no
Afrikaa Bambaataa & John Lydon-yes yes yes (you could put Ethel Merman with John Lydon & it would be new wave!!!)
Early Red Hot Chili Peppers-maybe now-no no no
Duran Duran-yes yes yes
What about Dexy's Midnight Runners, J. Geils Band, The Bangles-no no no no no no

What about Billy Idol?
[/quote]

Most definitely yes to Billy Idol
Bryan Ferry?

[glokstadt]

Roxy Music and Bryan Ferry are hard to classify, as they spread over decades from Glam to the New Wave/New Romantic periods, as B.F.'s last solo projects seemed pop rock with loads of over production via Rhett Davies the producer... IMHO, no and yes depending on which album(s) and time period.



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[budaniel]

New Wave really is so hard to define--I've accepted that there are different 'types' of new wave, but to me, I've always leaned towards the new wave 'dance rock' and from there to 'synthpop' and am not as much of a fan of the Elvis Costello/Squeeze/Joe Jackson sounds or anything more ska.

Coming off the disco era, when the 'rock' crowd started to attack the genre, 'new wave' was a shining light for dance music fans like myself--guitars and other real instruments blended together with synthesizers and very often drum machines to make usually incredibly melodic dance rock. Yet, in that 'rock' sound, I was still hearing echoes of Giorgio Moroder/Donna Summer productions. It's pretty obvious that many songs were denied the new wave label simply because they became popular--it tended to be a very possessive genre. Think about it--Girls Just Want To Have Fun is as quirky both musically and vocally as something you'd hear by, say, Altered Images or Julie Brown, both of whom got played on New York new wave station WLIR, but because it became so hugely popular, it is now a cliche, which is the one thing new wavers never wanted their music to be. I remember new wave as a 'feeling' you got. WLIR would play a song i'd never heard before, so fresh and different, one I knew I would probably never hear on mainstream radio, and would probably barely hear on WLIR. There were times they would play a new import discovery for like a week and then it would disappear into oblivion--One Day in My Life by JWB Hits the Beat comes to mind. But when they played a song like "Take on Me" by A-ha, and then two months later it was all over the top of the charts, that didn't make me think it any less of a slice of synthpop new wave perfection. I also agree that some artists can have crossover songs--Just like Blondie recorded a 'disco' song, they introduced me to a world of new wave sounds as well. Pat Benatar's first album, despite the presence of Heartbreaker, is loaded with sounds that to me reflect icy, sensual new wave dance more than the rock sounds of Heart. And Kim Carnes' follow-up LPs to Mistaken Identity are totally 80s, synthrock new wave dance, but she simply had become SO popular by then because of one song that new wave radio would never have played her. A number of her 80s songs could have been dropped into a set of music with Depeche Mode, Missing Persons, OMD, Ultravox, The Motels, New Order, Book of Love, etc, and if you hadn't been able to recognize her distinct voice, you wouldn't have thought twice as to why they were playing the song in that set.

But still, there are new wave classics that just are new wave for some intangible reason. One of the best new wave songs of all time, me thinks, is "She Sells Sanctuary" by The Cult. It's not loaded with synths or drum machines, and it's nothing like any of the other hard rock/punk songs they recorded, yet it has a sound so in tune with new wave sensibilities. To me, that song always sounded like a slightly harder edged Flock of Seagulls because of the guitar sound--a clean, melodic guitar heard in bands like Berlin and Ultravox as well.

I also agree that there are loads of great classic 'new wave' sounds to be found in the later part of the 80s. Sadly, so many of those songs and artists are 'lost' because radio and even original new wave artists had turned their back on that sound by then. But thanks to forums like this, I've discovered loads of artists who retained that initial early 80s sound in their records--many of which I've hunted down and bought in VINYL form simply because the artists never got enough recognition to even be released on CD. And all I can say is, no matter which 'new wave' you like, thanks to everyone on this board for exposing me to awesome artists I may have missed the first time around, be they Italo-disco, synthpop, post-punk, new romantic, or something less definable yet equally as amazing.

[xBerlin181x]

I've always thought that New Wave, down to its core, was essentially a blending of punk and pop with heavy use of synthesizers (though, not always when it comes to synthesizers 'cause I'd label "Never Say Never" from Romeo Void as New Wave). There's also a specific drum pattern that I've noticed that I can't quite explain. There also seemed to be 50s, surf-style rock, and powerpop influences with a lot of the earlier bands (and some of the powerpop bands crossed over into New Wave and blended the two genres frequently, so the lines would often become blurred.)

There are also bands that kind of went all over the place (Blondie comes to mind).
Blondie is interesting in the sense that almost every album of theirs had both New Wave and non-New Wave songs.
Their New Wave songs, to me:
"Rip her to shreds," "Kung Fu girls," and "Accidents never happen," among other songs. ("In the sun," "x-offender," "11:59," "Hanging on the telephone," among others would definitely fit, but they seemed to have other influences as well.)

Stormy Petrel, I don't think I'd consider Blondie a punk band, but I definitely do think they had some VERY punk songs. ( "Youth nabbed as sniper," and, especially, "Detroit 442")

I think because a lot of the early bands in the genre, like Blondie, were still perfecting it (since it was basically a subgenre of punk), in a sense, they were kind of all over the map throughout their careers because they were blending all of these different influences to come up with a specific sound (Think "The Metro" from Berlin. I think that song, essentially, defines the genre.)

I feel more comfortable labeling songs New Wave than I do bands New Wave. I think this is because, to me, bands that were labeled New Wave also did songs that were clearly NOT New Wave.

To me, these songs would be considered songs that define the genre and are what I think of when I think about what is "New Wave": "The Metro"-Berlin (and the majority of the Pleasure Victim ep), "Mental Hopscotch,"-Missing Persons (and most of the Spring Session M album), "I melt with you"-Modern English, "Whip it"-Devo, "New Toy"-Lene Lovich, "Rock Lobster"-B-52's, "Kids in America"-Kim Wilde, "I ran (so far away)"-A flock of seagulls, "Major Tom (coming home)"-Peter Schilling, "Underpass"-John Foxx, "Clones"-Alice Cooper (even though Alice cooper isn't New Wave, per se) etc.

I think The Epoxies' "Synthesized" would fit there too, even though it's from this decade.

What I wouldn't really consider New Wave even though it often gets the label: The Romantics, The Knack, Cheap Trick, Most of the stuff from the Police (although their early stuff would sort of fit, I guess), "Psycho Killer" from Talking Heads, Men at work, and most of the stuff from Elvis Costello which I've heard (although, I would consider "Pump it up" New Wave. I'm not too familiar with most of his stuff, though, so I'll leave it to others to label him New Wave or not), and I struggle to fit most Synthpop bands into the genre because, to me, it's more of a sub-genre of the sub-genre lol. It's sort of New Wave but without the obvious punk influences.

Of course, I'm much newer to the sub-genre than most people. I've only listened to a certain amount of bands and songs from it even though I've listened to New Wave for all of my life (I was born in the 80s, but I listened to the genre because my older brothers and sisters were huge New Wave kids). There are bands that get the label that I've never bothered to listen to other than their major singles
(like, for example, even though they were popular, I was never familiar with Duran Duran. Though, upon listening to it, I'd definitely label "Rio" New Wave. Dunno about a couple of the other songs I've heard from them, though.)

Like I said, I think it's much easier to label a song as New Wave rather than a band because the bands (And bands in general) tended to grow, musically, and play different genres.

[ghosty]

I think it's mostly subjective. The average person would say New Wave means a quirky song about an unusual subject with a synth part and no long drawn out guitar heroics and came out between 1977-1986. I have listeners who say the cut off is 1982. Some that say 1983-84 and some that go right up to the early 90's.

RE: Cheap Trick - They're a tough band to classify which is their strength. I bet there are discussions on Metal and Classic Rock message boards about whether they fit those genres too. Personally, I think they're one of the greatest rock bands of all time and are a law unto themselves. [:D]

RE: Roxy Music - So much of New Wave can be traced back to them it isn't even funny. A bigger influence than Bowie IMO. Listen to a cut like "Pyjamarama" and you'd swear it came out in 1982. If ever there was a band that may have possibly had a time machine to travel into the future and hear what music would eventually sound like and then travel back to the past and start making it, it's them. Maybe the question isn't "Is Roxy Music New Wave?" but rather "Is New Wave Roxy Music?".[;)]

[ESP]

Hey guys.. Living In A Box, specifically the song "Living In A Box" New Wave or not?

If not, can it at least be classified as some sort of 80's alternative? Or is it just straight pop?

A few observations:
The song placed on Live105's 1987 year end countdown but not the KROQ, 91X, or WHFS countdowns. Live105 did tend to lean a little more towards the electronic and pop stuff through.

The wikipedia article for the song classifies it as "alternative rock."

Allmusic classifies the band as dance-pop and pop/rock.

Sirius/XM play the song on the 80's station but not the classic alternative (80's alternative) station.

The song is on the list here on NWOutpost of New Wave songs on compilations.


Your thoughts on how to classify the song?

[Seona85]

Obviously this is a tough subject because genres are extremely blurry, artists sometimes call themselves things they are clearly not, and often styles can switch between albums and even on individual albums themselves.

The Police? Not sure. I can see points on both sides.

New Wave is really too broad to be a genre, just like pop. I divide it up. It makes little sense to have acts like Two Minds Crack in the same catagory as Spoons. I'd divide new wave up like this.

Pop New Wave - Very polished, mainstream, accessible stuff like Living In A Box, Wang Chung, Go West, etc.

New Romantic - not a great name for it, since that's more of a fashion style, but things like Visage, Duran Duran (early), Spandau Ballet (early), Spoons, Pseudo Echo, Ultravox, Images In Vogue

Power Wave - What Americans will call new wave. The Cars, some stuff by The Romantics, that kind of thing. A lot more guitar than synth, but not really power pop.

Pet Shop Boys I wouldn't class as new wave. They're synthpop. There just isn't enough of a guitar focus. Same with Depeche Mode, I mean, early Depeche Mode could BE Pet Shop Boys. Tempted to say the same about Human League post-Dare, Soft Cell, and much of OMD, although the early stuff you could easily put in the Minimal Synthpop catagory. Bunker Soldiers is raw as hell.

Tom Petty is folk.Cheap Trick is power pop. Greg Kihn is.... not new wave really. Weirdly, I draw comparisons between him and the guy who did 'Lawyers In Love' who I forget the name of.Prince does not get to be new wave. If he gets in, then so does MJ. He's just unique. Needs his own genre. Billy Idol now I come to think of it is pretty new wave on Rebel Yell, but you have a lot of AOR influence throughout his stuff. Genre Cyberpunk for me. That's a challenge.

I have a few tough ones.

Crazy House (Still Looking For Heaven On Earth) - Arena rock, but could also be new wave

Simple Minds - Where does the post-punk era stop, the new wave era begin?

Beargarden - very guitar oriented, but tempted to say new wave

Limahl - with Kajagoogoo, he's new wave, but its much more synth oriented on his own. synthpop? Like Hubert Kah?

Fra Lippo Lippi - Always hard. They're compared to Fiction Factory who are clearly new wave, but something is always more acoustic about Fra Lippo Lippi. Their songs seem less polished, more earthy.

Vitamin Z????

The really hard one... SECESSION????!!!

[dbutler69]

SECESSION? Of the three songs I've heard by them, I'd say "The Magician" sounds New Wave-y to me, "Betrayal" sounds more like Goth or Darkwave, and I could probably call "Touch" New Wave, though it also sounds a bit like Darkwave to me. Tough call!

[WoodlandParkPunk]

The Plimsouls??
The Knack?
DEVO?

"You just pick a chord, go twang, and you've got music." ~ Sid Vicious

[WoodlandParkPunk]

Kate Bush?
Adam Ant?

"You just pick a chord, go twang, and you've got music." ~ Sid Vicious

[Frau_Blucher]

Yes no yes yes yes