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Postby Frau_Blucher » Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:37 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by hutter[/i]
<br>Maybe THIS will finally settle this lil' discussion.

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Superman.html

I don't know about y'all, but I'd rather side with Superman than Lex F-N Luthor!
[/quote]
Yes, but WHAT IF Jor-El had landed in Prussia instead? He may have asserted that..."Russians are swine! Just one step above the Poles! Two steps above the Gypsies! Four steps above the Homosexuals! Five steps above the Negros! Nine steps above the Dwarves! Fifteen steps above the Gypsy Homosexuals! Twenty-seven steps above the Negro Gypsy Homosexual Dwarves! And forty-three steps above the Jews! Did I mention the Homosexual Jews?"
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Postby 2Nu » Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:18 am

Sorry for the tardy post.. but I've been meaning to weigh in on this particularly haughty debate.

Being a Christian follower (Presbyterian) as well as one who ascribes to the tenets of inquiry based science needed for the walk in the secular world, I especially take umbrage with those who seek to foist their particular belief system or Biblical interpretation unto others.

In particular, those who seek to exclude, marginalize or flat out condemn those who hail from one of the branches of the very same spiritual 'river' or 'tree'.

It should be the intent of all 'believers' to convey respect of other board members who profess faith and commitment to the gospels as presented in the Bible (as well as other beliefs).

With regard to salvation, IMO it should be incumbent on all those in the discussion to refrain from judging or determining for others their qualifications for salvation.

Being a mod, my primary concern is for the precident or tone that is set by the expressed rhetoric or dogmatic views which left unchecked, can have a lasting and chilling effect on open discourse in the discussion forum.

People should be free to openly express their views here buuut... how much of a one's single minded view should be allowed to dominate and linger in a particular circumstance?

Quite Life, as a reason for my intercession, might I present this particular passage from Matthew 18

[b]A Brother Who Sins (Against You)[/b]

[i] 15"If your brother sins against you,[b] go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'[c] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. [/i]

Please take this as a polite reminder to exercise more tact in expressing your spiritual views and show some tolerance toward others whose beliefs may not be in tune with yours.

<IMG SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/richp62/Icons%20Avatars/image053.gif">
P.S. Thank You Fr. M.G.[;)]
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Postby hutter » Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:46 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by Blir[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by hutter[/i]
<br>Maybe THIS will finally settle this lil' discussion.

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Superman.html

I don't know about y'all, but I'd rather side with Superman than Lex F-N Luthor!
[/quote]
Yes, but WHAT IF Jor-El had landed in Prussia instead? He may have asserted that..."Russians are swine! Just one step above the Poles! Two steps above the Gypsies! Four steps above the Homosexuals! Five steps above the Negros! Nine steps above the Dwarves! Fifteen steps above the Gypsy Homosexuals! Twenty-seven steps above the Negro Gypsy Homosexual Dwarves! And forty-three steps above the Jews! Did I mention the Homosexual Jews?"
[/quote]
Heh...they've done a few "What If" Superman stories not far from that. The most recent one had him land in the USSR. But in OUR universe, he landed in Kansas, and is 100% a believer. My point? Believers can fly and repel bullets (like Superman), atheists are bald and bitter (like Luthor).
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Postby i_like_lectric_motors » Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:48 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by hutter[/i]
<br>Maybe THIS will finally settle this lil' discussion.

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Superman.html

I don't know about y'all, but I'd rather side with Superman than Lex F-N Luthor!
[/quote]

This is just sad on so many levels.
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Postby Quite Life » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:34 am

2Nu,

I understand your point and it would be valid if these people whom I have entered into polemical dialog with were members of Christ’s Church. When I use the term Christ’s Church I am referring to bible believing evangelicals who preach the gospel of justification by faith alone and believe the historic Christian creeds which sadly Mormonism, Romanism, and The Watchtower does not. The fact that these groups are outside of bible believing evangelical religion grieves me and really saddens my heart as it should for anyone whose convictions is formed by scripture. I am not personally condemning these groups or individuals but explaining why the bible believing evangelical CHURCH, whether it is Baptist or Presbyterian, despite their secondary differences are still co-laborers in Christ, teach from the bible that there are certain conditions for one being a Christian. Those conditions are being saved by the righteousness of Christ alone and not their own self-righteousness. Because of these conditions laid out in the bible, bible believing evangelicals whether they are Presbyterians or Baptists teach that certain groups like Mormons, The Watchtower, Romanists, Islam, Hindu, Buddha and all other religions (in their opinion) are out side of the church (Kingdom of God and salvation).


Being a Presbyterian yourself you should be able to recognize that my views on the religion are formed by old school 19th century Princeton. If you know the tragic history of American evangelicalism especially American Presbyterianism you would understand a little more of our convitions. I am a member of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church which broke away from the mainline Presbyterian Church in the USA in the 1930’s because the mainline church was being over run by theological modernity and liberalism. It was events such as the Reorganization of Princeton Seminary in 1929 and the reaction to that by the opening of Westminster Seminary in Philadelphia, the Auburn affirmation of 1924, the PCUSA embrace of the apostate missionary and author Pearl Buck, the formation of the independent board of foreign missions. Which lead to the formation of our church The Orthodox Presbyterian Church in 1936 and then later joined by our fraternal brethren The Presbyterian Church in America in 1973. We represent the core of historical protestant bible beliving evangelicalism. There are many other church denominations that stand with us in exclude Mormons, The Watchtower, Romanists, Islam, Hindu, Buddha and all other religions from the title of being a Christian church or in secular terms “a path from heavenâ€￾. We are not pluralists and do not consider these religions a part of the same “riverâ€￾ or “treeâ€￾. This is not just my personal opinion in the same manor as your take on the manor is your personal opinion, rather my opinion is in consensus with a large community of believers who are by God’s grace and in orderly fashon are organized, united and distributed by different denominations of evangelicals. Which by the official position of these churches Romanists and Mormons are not a part of.


With all this said, with the freedom of religion you have the right to believe what ever you want regardless if it is right or wrong. It is the opinion of many maybe you included that there is no right or wrong in religious believe. It was my prerogative given the topic of the thread to enter into an aristocratic calm and cool discussion on the matter and get to the truth on the issues through diolog and inquiry. Unfortunatly the inquiry of truth is an epistemological impossibility for those who have dedicated themselves to moral relativism. This is so by the very parameters that are set by moral relativists who have blown up their bridge to the inqury of truth. Hence when there is any serious and rigorioius epistemological inquiry to truth the moral relativists start to get pissed. They realize that their system is intellectually bankrupt and a sham. The inquiry to truth will always marginalize those who are wrong. Given the topic of this thread then I exercised my American right of free speech to engage in this topic by advancing certain propositions that I believe are true and then putting them in the marketplace of ideas for discussion. Given that our culture has been feminized into a political correctness we have lost our nerve to really engage topics with any serious commitment to truth. Since this has lead most of us into relitivesm truth and the inquiry of is really meaningless.

One more thing Matthew 18 is a wonderful text and I do thank you for mentioning that. But it only works if your in “The Churchâ€￾. Question 2Nu, how do you apply verse 17 to those who are not a member of a church? Or one who goes to a church that doesn’t recognize your church as a Christian. That is if someone in the Southern Baptist Church or Evangelical Free Church would have a charge against lets say a member in the Mormon church, the Mormon would not recognize that charge because Mormonism sees these churched and all evangelical protestant churches as non-Christian (Just like Evangelicals don’t see Mormons as Christian the exclusion is mutual). How do you apply Matt. 18 in this case? How do you apply Matt. 18 to Muslims? Don’t Muslims have to cease being Muslims and confess Christ as the only truth and way (John 14:6) and be in the church according to the appeal in Matt 18:17? Please help me out here.


Sincerely yours,
QL
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Postby Quite Life » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:14 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by egg-roger[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by Quite Life[/i]
<br>To Egg-Roger,


I will hard ball you

Quiet Life
[/quote]

Wha . . Huh??? Stay away from me!!!


Please re-read (slowly) my previous post, esp. the part about you not being qualified to judge the beliefs of others. The authors of the distorted propaganda to which you subscribe are similarly unqualified.

[/quote]

Why are bible believing evangelicals unqualified to asses the Mormon church? Mormons in their official writings have given an assessment to bible believing evangelical churches, why are they qualified? I’m not politically correct so I don’t have a problem with judging other religions here. My complaint is why is it a one way street in YOUR opinion? Why is your church qualified to judge our churches as false religion and our churches are not qualified to judge your church in your opinion?


Anyways let I degress the purpose of this response to the set the Mormon church up against your personal believes and opinions to demonstrait that your are out of line with your Mormon church. I will soon start a thread called “A Message to you Egg-Rogerâ€￾ (Kind of like the Specials). This thread I will quote from Mormon Books themselves to demonstrate that you are out of line with your own church. It will be Egg-Roger vs. Mormonism. I will then force you to take a side, either Mormonism (a fundamentalist narrow minded religion that condemns everyone and is no fun) or secular humanism (a pluralistic anti-intellectual mess of confusing goo). You cannot play both sides you’ll be force to take one side or the other. I am going to use you own Mormon books against you. Hey If you’re a Mormon that’s cool if you’re a Humanistic Pluralist that’s cool too. That will be my goal. I just try to expose you, I will not try to convert you.


A message to you Egg-Roger coming soon.


Hey Abacab66 Your going to get a message too I just got my hand on some Watchtower books from the local kingdom Hall. JW’s too are not very pluralistic or socially liberal you too will have to tow the line of your church that you gave an oath to or get out!!! So Abacab66 you'll either be a JW (a fundamentalist religion that according to their official teachings "Young People Ask Book" all of us at New Wave Outpost are condemn to destruction) or secular pluralistic humanism (sticky sticky goo). According to the JW religion you are not supposed to associate with this board. Here is a verse that the JW's quote in regards to all of us who are not JWs.

"33 Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits." 1Cor 15:33 JW's New World Translation

So get in line with the JWs Abacab66 or get out![:)][:D][8D][;)][}:)]
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Postby Klaus Von Konrad » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:32 am

Quitelife:

Do you believe that the Pope is the Antichrist? That is part of the Westminster Confession of Faith that you constantly quote:

VI. There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ.[13] Nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalts himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God.[14]
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Postby hexicon » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:48 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by Klaus Von Konrad[/i]
<br>Quitelife:

Do you believe that the Pope is the Antichrist? That is part of the Westminster Confession of Faith that you constantly quote:

VI. There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ.[13] Nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalts himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God.[14]

[/quote]

KVK, I guess you missed the original QL "the Pope will burn in hell" sermon from the RIP John Paul II thread a while back . . . I believe that the answer is "yes."
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Postby Klaus Von Konrad » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:56 am

[quote]
KVK, I guess you missed the original QL "the Pope will burn in hell" sermon from the RIP John Paul II thread a while back . . . I believe that the answer is "yes."
[/quote]

The great irony is that the music played in hell is Comtemporary Christian music.
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Postby hexicon » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:57 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by Klaus Von Konrad[/i]
<br>[quote]
KVK, I guess you missed the original QL "the Pope will burn in hell" sermon from the RIP John Paul II thread a while back . . . I believe that the answer is "yes."
[/quote]

The great irony is that the music played in hell is Comtemporary Christian music.
[/quote]

And all the potato salad is German.
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Postby abacab66 » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:19 pm

[quote][i]Originally posted by hexicon[/i]
<br>And all the potato salad is German.
[/quote]
Hey, that's my favorite kind............uh, oh.
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Postby wendy m » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:13 pm

I am a complete non-believer. However, I think putting people down because of their faith is completely unacceptable. As long as no one tries shoving religion down my throat and the Church and State are kept a safe distance apart, I'm cool. Many of my very good friends are devout Jews, Christians, and Muslims. I love and respect them all. Likewise, I know lots of non-believers who are extremely moral people. Religion, or even non-religion, is a very personal matter.
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Postby egg-roger » Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:26 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by Quite Life[/i]
<br> I will not try to convert you.


A message to you Egg-Roger coming soon.


[/quote]

No, by all means, convert me! But I suggest we continue our dialogue via email rather than burden our new wave brethren with such arcane matters.
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Postby MARV » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:24 am

Good move, Egg. If Quite Life wants to continue his purposeless assault with anybody else, hopefully he'll follow the same model. This comedy of ills seems like it's starting to peter out.

<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">I dig whales.</a>
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Postby Rubbeet921 » Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:42 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by marie3[/i]
<br>Rubbeet! I am so happy to see you back!!![:D]
[/quote]

Thanks Marie! **hugs to you** I try to pass by every now and then...[;)][:D] Oh, and I just noticed that you and MARV are now MODS!!! Yay, CONGRATS!!! (Does this mean I should change my username to Mubbeet?[:D]). So, whatever happened to MyBlirWin??? Hmmm...
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