by Quite Life » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:34 am
2Nu,
I understand your point and it would be valid if these people whom I have entered into polemical dialog with were members of Christ’s Church. When I use the term Christ’s Church I am referring to bible believing evangelicals who preach the gospel of justification by faith alone and believe the historic Christian creeds which sadly Mormonism, Romanism, and The Watchtower does not. The fact that these groups are outside of bible believing evangelical religion grieves me and really saddens my heart as it should for anyone whose convictions is formed by scripture. I am not personally condemning these groups or individuals but explaining why the bible believing evangelical CHURCH, whether it is Baptist or Presbyterian, despite their secondary differences are still co-laborers in Christ, teach from the bible that there are certain conditions for one being a Christian. Those conditions are being saved by the righteousness of Christ alone and not their own self-righteousness. Because of these conditions laid out in the bible, bible believing evangelicals whether they are Presbyterians or Baptists teach that certain groups like Mormons, The Watchtower, Romanists, Islam, Hindu, Buddha and all other religions (in their opinion) are out side of the church (Kingdom of God and salvation).
Being a Presbyterian yourself you should be able to recognize that my views on the religion are formed by old school 19th century Princeton. If you know the tragic history of American evangelicalism especially American Presbyterianism you would understand a little more of our convitions. I am a member of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church which broke away from the mainline Presbyterian Church in the USA in the 1930’s because the mainline church was being over run by theological modernity and liberalism. It was events such as the Reorganization of Princeton Seminary in 1929 and the reaction to that by the opening of Westminster Seminary in Philadelphia, the Auburn affirmation of 1924, the PCUSA embrace of the apostate missionary and author Pearl Buck, the formation of the independent board of foreign missions. Which lead to the formation of our church The Orthodox Presbyterian Church in 1936 and then later joined by our fraternal brethren The Presbyterian Church in America in 1973. We represent the core of historical protestant bible beliving evangelicalism. There are many other church denominations that stand with us in exclude Mormons, The Watchtower, Romanists, Islam, Hindu, Buddha and all other religions from the title of being a Christian church or in secular terms “a path from heavenâ€. We are not pluralists and do not consider these religions a part of the same “river†or “treeâ€. This is not just my personal opinion in the same manor as your take on the manor is your personal opinion, rather my opinion is in consensus with a large community of believers who are by God’s grace and in orderly fashon are organized, united and distributed by different denominations of evangelicals. Which by the official position of these churches Romanists and Mormons are not a part of.
With all this said, with the freedom of religion you have the right to believe what ever you want regardless if it is right or wrong. It is the opinion of many maybe you included that there is no right or wrong in religious believe. It was my prerogative given the topic of the thread to enter into an aristocratic calm and cool discussion on the matter and get to the truth on the issues through diolog and inquiry. Unfortunatly the inquiry of truth is an epistemological impossibility for those who have dedicated themselves to moral relativism. This is so by the very parameters that are set by moral relativists who have blown up their bridge to the inqury of truth. Hence when there is any serious and rigorioius epistemological inquiry to truth the moral relativists start to get pissed. They realize that their system is intellectually bankrupt and a sham. The inquiry to truth will always marginalize those who are wrong. Given the topic of this thread then I exercised my American right of free speech to engage in this topic by advancing certain propositions that I believe are true and then putting them in the marketplace of ideas for discussion. Given that our culture has been feminized into a political correctness we have lost our nerve to really engage topics with any serious commitment to truth. Since this has lead most of us into relitivesm truth and the inquiry of is really meaningless.
One more thing Matthew 18 is a wonderful text and I do thank you for mentioning that. But it only works if your in “The Churchâ€. Question 2Nu, how do you apply verse 17 to those who are not a member of a church? Or one who goes to a church that doesn’t recognize your church as a Christian. That is if someone in the Southern Baptist Church or Evangelical Free Church would have a charge against lets say a member in the Mormon church, the Mormon would not recognize that charge because Mormonism sees these churched and all evangelical protestant churches as non-Christian (Just like Evangelicals don’t see Mormons as Christian the exclusion is mutual). How do you apply Matt. 18 in this case? How do you apply Matt. 18 to Muslims? Don’t Muslims have to cease being Muslims and confess Christ as the only truth and way (John 14:6) and be in the church according to the appeal in Matt 18:17? Please help me out here.
Sincerely yours,
QL