Getting back to the intent of this thread, which was "What determines new wave from alternative?" I think EchoBeachBunnyBoy's statement way back on Aug 26, 2004 says it all. It's in the mind of the person buying the music.
My New Wave is not the same as your New Wave.
My alternative is not the same as your alternative.
Having worked in radio all through the 1980's and into the mid-90's, I will say that someone's comment about marketing is also pretty close to the truth.
--Until about 1984, the top broadcasting trade magazine [i]Radio and Records[/i], would list all the New Wave songs on the Pop charts or the AOR charts (Album Oriented Rock). Pop, if it was a hit and AOR of it was a non-hit album cut. [i]Billboard[/i] was based on record sales. [i]R&R[/i] was based on radio airplay.
--After about 1984 [i]R&R[/i] created the "Modern Rock" Chart, which focused on the hard to categorize music of New Wave and the upcoming Alternative bands. There was also a Dance Chart, which included many of the New Wave dance stuff that was getting big in the mid-80's. Why do you think there was such an explosion in 12-inch dance remixes and singles about then? They wanted to get on the [i]R&R[/i] Dance Chart.
--Come about 1990 the chart was renamed "Alternative." The Dance chart remained.
Radio announcers used to live and breathe by that magazine and if [i]R&R[/i] called it New Wave...then the announcers called it New Wave...and inevitably the listeners would call it New Wave. When announcers started calling it Modern Rock, inevitably the public started calling it Modern Rock.
And so on.....
Are you getting the picture yet?
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What determines new wave from alternative?
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by geoffolehane » Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:40 am
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by guyinsf » Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:29 am
Like I said before in my post, I like the term "modern rock", as vague as it is. Modern rock is the umbrella that has NW, alternative, grunge, indie, college radio, punk and all the proto-punk pioneers like iggy pop, david bowie, velvet underground under it.
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by WolverineSyr » Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:46 am
When I first came on these boards I had very firm ideas about what "New Wave" was. If I've learned anything here, it's to never get so rigid in my definitions. Someone else will always have a different interpretation & open my eyes to another idea or expand the definition.
I think that's what the spirit of new wave, alternative, modern rock, whatever you want to call, it is all about anyways.
I think that's what the spirit of new wave, alternative, modern rock, whatever you want to call, it is all about anyways.
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by 2Nu » Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:40 am
[quote][i]Originally posted by WolverineSyr[/i]
<br>When I first came on these boards I had very firm ideas about what "New Wave" was. If I've learned anything here, it's to never get so rigid in my definitions. Someone else will always have a different interpretation & open my eyes to another idea or expand the definition.
I think that's what the spirit of new wave, alternative, modern rock, whatever you want to call, it is all about anyways.
[/quote]Well then..
Given all this banter about how blurred the line is between the two...
Should Mike P consider revising the name of this site to the
[/i]<br><blink><font size=3>[b]'New Wave & Alternative' Outpost?</blink></font>[/b] [}:)][:D]
[:0]!!Ooowahhh Heresy!![:0]
<br>When I first came on these boards I had very firm ideas about what "New Wave" was. If I've learned anything here, it's to never get so rigid in my definitions. Someone else will always have a different interpretation & open my eyes to another idea or expand the definition.
I think that's what the spirit of new wave, alternative, modern rock, whatever you want to call, it is all about anyways.
[/quote]Well then..
Given all this banter about how blurred the line is between the two...
Should Mike P consider revising the name of this site to the
[/i]<br><blink><font size=3>[b]'New Wave & Alternative' Outpost?</blink></font>[/b] [}:)][:D]
[:0]!!Ooowahhh Heresy!![:0]
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by WolverineSyr » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:45 am
What is "emo"? I hear people say it all the time & I've been too embarrassed to ask what they're talking about!
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by zill » Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:24 am
Oooo, I love these posts…
From Quite Life (perhaps the best quote ever from all of NWO)
“From 1977-1983 was the time when the greatest music that was ever known to man was created.”
From hexicon
“The Smiths first record seemed so unlike anything NW I'd heard before.”
From Ollie Stench
“New Wave bands were creating something new, without limits or rules, made possible by the advent of really cheap instruments. Alternative bands were reacting against the pop music of the day.”
From ghosty
“With the exception of myself and a handful of friends, NO ONE listened to the Smiths or The Cure. They were all way heavy into Bon Jovi, Poison, Def Leppard, White Lion, Warrant etc. etc. etc...maybe a little rap thrown in for good measure.”
From SwampThing
“I found American grunge music to be a natural extension of the punk ethic and most of my friends from the new wave days really enjoyed the scene while it lasted.”
From LovePlusOne
“I still remember to this day the first time I heard "Smells Like Teen Spirit"--it blew me away.”
Wow. This thread was like going to therapy for me. Would you believe that to this day I only know one real live person besides myself that was into The Smiths? There were times I felt so frustrated that no one “got it” as they turfed my records off the turntable in favour of Quiet Riot and Whitesnake. By 1987 I was so desperate for good music I had regressed back to Sex Pistols, The Damned, The Clash and all the other early UK punk I had missed out on by virtue of living in Lower Nowheresville, Canada.
By the early 90’s I was on the west coast and the first Nirvana tune I heard, Lithium, floored me. Grunge was initially brilliant but it fizzled fast. Then, fortunately, Blur, Oasis, Pulp, etc. briefly came to the rescue. I can’t recall what I listened to in the late 90’s (was there any new music during this era or just sampling and remakes?), and living in the UK in the early 00’s all I heard was dance. Fortunately great Canadian bands like Hot Hot Heat and The Arcade Fire, and UK groups like Keane and Franz Ferdinand have given me something “new” to listen to again!
And just while it occurs to me, was I the only person in the world to ever buy a Wire Train album?
From Quite Life (perhaps the best quote ever from all of NWO)
“From 1977-1983 was the time when the greatest music that was ever known to man was created.”
From hexicon
“The Smiths first record seemed so unlike anything NW I'd heard before.”
From Ollie Stench
“New Wave bands were creating something new, without limits or rules, made possible by the advent of really cheap instruments. Alternative bands were reacting against the pop music of the day.”
From ghosty
“With the exception of myself and a handful of friends, NO ONE listened to the Smiths or The Cure. They were all way heavy into Bon Jovi, Poison, Def Leppard, White Lion, Warrant etc. etc. etc...maybe a little rap thrown in for good measure.”
From SwampThing
“I found American grunge music to be a natural extension of the punk ethic and most of my friends from the new wave days really enjoyed the scene while it lasted.”
From LovePlusOne
“I still remember to this day the first time I heard "Smells Like Teen Spirit"--it blew me away.”
Wow. This thread was like going to therapy for me. Would you believe that to this day I only know one real live person besides myself that was into The Smiths? There were times I felt so frustrated that no one “got it” as they turfed my records off the turntable in favour of Quiet Riot and Whitesnake. By 1987 I was so desperate for good music I had regressed back to Sex Pistols, The Damned, The Clash and all the other early UK punk I had missed out on by virtue of living in Lower Nowheresville, Canada.
By the early 90’s I was on the west coast and the first Nirvana tune I heard, Lithium, floored me. Grunge was initially brilliant but it fizzled fast. Then, fortunately, Blur, Oasis, Pulp, etc. briefly came to the rescue. I can’t recall what I listened to in the late 90’s (was there any new music during this era or just sampling and remakes?), and living in the UK in the early 00’s all I heard was dance. Fortunately great Canadian bands like Hot Hot Heat and The Arcade Fire, and UK groups like Keane and Franz Ferdinand have given me something “new” to listen to again!
And just while it occurs to me, was I the only person in the world to ever buy a Wire Train album?
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by WolverineSyr » Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:08 am
[quote][i]Originally posted by guyinsf[/i]
<br>I HATE Pearl Jam! Boring bland guitar band with a lead singer with a voice of a 95 yr old man. Hope they are not a regular mention on this forum.
sorry
[/quote]
No they aren't I was being sarcastic in my earlier post.
<br>I HATE Pearl Jam! Boring bland guitar band with a lead singer with a voice of a 95 yr old man. Hope they are not a regular mention on this forum.
sorry
[/quote]
No they aren't I was being sarcastic in my earlier post.
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by manekineko » Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:30 am
From bpdp3: "For me, "new wave" (those quotation marks encompass perky quirky songs, skinny ties, neon colors, new wave album cover graphics, loads of bands being pushed by record labels in a hurry, etc etc) - - it ended by '82 or '83...
At this point I pretty much smoosh all the music I liked from the 80's (you know, bands you might find in the Trouser Press guides) under the 'new wave' label to keep it simple."
I agree. I visualize new wave two different ways. On a very broad, general level, I use the term new wave (I visualize it in lower case letters) to describe all music in the late 70's and 80's that was non-mainstream, in other words, not radio-pop, not heavy metal, not classic rock, not disco, etc. I use this uncapitalized term when people ask me, "What kind of music do you like?" Although they can't see the lower case letters coming out of my mouth [:)], I know that the term "new wave" is something they will instantly recognize. I decided on giving them this simple answer a while back after seeing the puzzled looks on their faces when I would hem and haw over the answer, "I like punk, postpunk, new wave, new romantic, goth, power pop, cowpunk/punkabilly, early alternative, blah, blah, blah..." When the average Joe asks you what music you like, he doesn't really want a dissertation for an answer, LOL. So I use "new wave" (lower case) as the general term for all the music that I like from the late 70's and 80's.
Included in the general classification of "new wave" is the subgroup of "New Wave" (capitalized) that is much more specific in its style and more restrictive in its duration (1978-ish through 1984-ish). This more specific subset (New Wave) has the distinctive catchy, synthy sound that we all know when we hear it, and the distinctive look (skinny ties, crazy hairdos, etc.) that we normally associate with New Wave.
Sounds confusing, but I really visualize it this way, like an outline:
I. new wave
---A. New Wave
__________
From ghosty: "So you see, it must all depend on your own individual experience. Where you lived, what was happening in radio, etc. Maybe that's the one true answer to this dilemma. Everyone has there own spin on what happened in music depending on what they experienced."
Yes, how we define and categorize the music largely depends on where we lived, how the music was presented on the radio, whether or not we had access to MTV, what was going musically in school or with our friends, etc.
__________
From Save the Wave: "I agree-New Wave seems to end about 83-84...it just wasn't "new" any more... I think that the overall morose turn that New Wave took in 1983-84 or so ushers in the "alternative" era."
I see it that way, too.
At this point I pretty much smoosh all the music I liked from the 80's (you know, bands you might find in the Trouser Press guides) under the 'new wave' label to keep it simple."
I agree. I visualize new wave two different ways. On a very broad, general level, I use the term new wave (I visualize it in lower case letters) to describe all music in the late 70's and 80's that was non-mainstream, in other words, not radio-pop, not heavy metal, not classic rock, not disco, etc. I use this uncapitalized term when people ask me, "What kind of music do you like?" Although they can't see the lower case letters coming out of my mouth [:)], I know that the term "new wave" is something they will instantly recognize. I decided on giving them this simple answer a while back after seeing the puzzled looks on their faces when I would hem and haw over the answer, "I like punk, postpunk, new wave, new romantic, goth, power pop, cowpunk/punkabilly, early alternative, blah, blah, blah..." When the average Joe asks you what music you like, he doesn't really want a dissertation for an answer, LOL. So I use "new wave" (lower case) as the general term for all the music that I like from the late 70's and 80's.
Included in the general classification of "new wave" is the subgroup of "New Wave" (capitalized) that is much more specific in its style and more restrictive in its duration (1978-ish through 1984-ish). This more specific subset (New Wave) has the distinctive catchy, synthy sound that we all know when we hear it, and the distinctive look (skinny ties, crazy hairdos, etc.) that we normally associate with New Wave.
Sounds confusing, but I really visualize it this way, like an outline:
I. new wave
---A. New Wave
__________
From ghosty: "So you see, it must all depend on your own individual experience. Where you lived, what was happening in radio, etc. Maybe that's the one true answer to this dilemma. Everyone has there own spin on what happened in music depending on what they experienced."
Yes, how we define and categorize the music largely depends on where we lived, how the music was presented on the radio, whether or not we had access to MTV, what was going musically in school or with our friends, etc.
__________
From Save the Wave: "I agree-New Wave seems to end about 83-84...it just wasn't "new" any more... I think that the overall morose turn that New Wave took in 1983-84 or so ushers in the "alternative" era."
I see it that way, too.
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