New Wave Outpost Forum

by **stella** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:12 am

---------------------------------------------------------------Stella, wake up!! Suppose we miss our target??? You must be out of the loop. Once again Stella, the U.S. is the most powerful nation on the planet, but when 90% of what you could do is off limits for the sake of PC then what would you expect? The leaders aren't as much inadequate as they are playing by different rules. Did FDR or Truman have to worry about being PC?
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86, please define what aspects of the war were PC. In what way was Bush hampered by political correctness. Are you talking first strike ethics, the constitution, the law, the truth?

by **phillyidol** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:20 am

OY VEY! Everyone take a deep breath before you respond.

by **eight6** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:44 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by stella[/i]
 ---------------------------------------------------------------Stella, wake up!! Suppose we miss our target??? You must be out of the loop. Once again Stella, the U.S. is the most powerful nation on the planet, but when 90% of what you could do is off limits for the sake of PC then what would you expect? The leaders aren't as much inadequate as they are playing by different rules. Did FDR or Truman have to worry about being PC?
----------------------------------------------------------------
86, please define what aspects of the war were PC. In what way was Bush hampered by political correctness. Are you talking first strike ethics, the constitution, the law, the truth?

[/quote]

I'm talking about the U.S. fighting a pinpoint accuracy war, with the goal of minimizing civilian casualties. They are under constant scrutiny by the rest of the world, something FDR or Truman didn't have. If Iran were to be able to deploy a nuclear device, they wouldn't give a damn about collateral damage, their goal is to win...at any cost. It's the divergence of these methodologies that makes asshats like Ahmadinejad think they can win a war with the U.S.: they've seen only a small percentage of the damage that the U.S. could inflict if it chose to.

I admire the U.S. for their choice of military tactics, because let's face it, they could take care of business and be back by Miller time if they really wanted to.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/dbince/eight.gif"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/dbince/number6.gif">

by **hutter** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:13 am

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h197/troylowe/stella.jpg" border="0" alt="Image hosting by Photobucket"></a>

Jeezus Christ, woman...you're giving me a headache from trying to figure out your shit.[xx(]

<a href="http://electricdreams71.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">My Blog: ElectricDreams</a>

by **2Nu** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:10 pm

[quote][i]Originally posted by eight6[/i]
 
Thanks for your simplistic analysis of my cognitive abilities. The truth of the matter is if there was any quote attributable to Ahmadinejad showing him to be in any way cerebral, caring or benevolent, then I guess I would have a better understanding of his motives. As I don't, perhaps you can enlighten me as to why you think his statements are non threatening. I haven't advocated an invasion of Iran, you put those words into my mouth; I have said and continue to say Iran poses the single greatest threat to the world at this time. You can't discuss points of view and find resolutions with a government who has no interest in listening.

[/quote]
Eight6,
While the following piece of info does not contain any quotes per se, I find it interesting that no mention has yet been made of "Iran's Grand Bargain" diplomatic proposal to the US State Department brokered by the Swiss back in May of 2003 (initially reported by the Financial Times). Also reported <a href="http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2004/March/middleeast_March438.xml§ion=middleeast" target="blank">"Here"</a>, <a href="http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/001164.html" target="blank">"Here"</a>, <a href="http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E4FEA287-DBF9-4A59-BCAC-2911736E02B4.htm" target="blank">"Here"</a>, <a href="http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=32672" target="blank">"and Here"</a>

[b]"Under the plan, Iran would address US concerns over nuclear weapons, terrorism, co-ordinate policy on Iraq and consider a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the FT said.

In return, Iran would expect a lifting of sanctions, recognition of its security interests, dropping of “regime change” from the official US lexicon and eventual re-establishment of relations."[/b]

The following telling excerpt speaks volumes about the <a href="http://www.newamericancentury.org/" target="blank">"'PNAC'"</a> mindset of the DC beltway neocons:

[b]"The US gave no formal response to the Iranian offer and the Swiss foreign ministry received a rebuke from Washington for ”overstepping” its mandate, the FT said. Switzerland has looked after US interests in Iran since Washington cut ties with Teheran after the 1979 Islamic revolution."[/b]

That's great.. snub the (Iranian) offer of diplomatic relations and at the same time, rip the messenger (Switzerland) a new one![xx(]

As for all this current US - Iran sabre rattling, it rings curiously similar to the Iraq pre-invasion "Mushroom Cloud" ramp up propaganda spewed forth by the beltway hawks and the right wing punditocracy.

<IMG SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/richp62/Icons%20Avatars/inot.gif">

by **plagiarism** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:17 pm

Interesting stuff. On the other hand, the Irani president was elected in 2005 with 60% of the vote, and he doesn't seem to be the type to abide by that "grand bargain" anyway.

by **stella** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:35 pm

No he does not. In fact he is in our face far more than Sadam who was once our man.
We kept a dictator in power in Iran for over 20 plus years while he plundered the country and its people. I would say they have reason to hate us. This does not give them a pass but can understand their hate. I would never forgive a foreign power that kept a corrupt pig on my back.

Israel is a made country, a place to stick a bunch of Jews no one wanted. The fact that the land was already occupied by a people that were diametrically opposed to Judaism was just a small mistake on the part of countries that were more interested in not having them settle ‘too close to us’.
.

by **WolverineSyr** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:22 pm

Sometimes I think we should live & let live. Then I get a grip & remember things like this:
http://www.iran-e-azad.org/stoning/women.html

I couldn't stomach reading the entire thing, it's pretty brutal.
One of the incidences involved 3 men and one woman convicted of rape & adultery. I suspect the woman was the victim of the rape.

by **edisonoside** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:46 pm

[quote][i]Originally posted by eight6[/i]
 [quote][i]Originally posted by edisonoside[/i]
Ahh! You said the magic word-Israel. Israel is a big girl that can take care of herself.... Does Israel own our military???

[/quote]

No they don't...but they do own an impressive military of their own capable of kicking Iran's ass back to the stone age in a heartbeat. The reason they don't is that they have a sufficient amount of brain power governing them as well as civility and respect for others who have a differing view. Iran has none of those.

I've seen Israel show alot of civility when it comes to treating palestinians and its neighbors.

All this is about how long our memories can go, How vast our circle of thought is. How much research one can do or will do???
No one side is ever truly innocent.
quote]

by **2Nu** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:12 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by plagiarism[/i]
 Interesting stuff. On the other hand, the Irani president was elected in 2005 with 60% of the vote, and he doesn't seem to be the type to abide by that "grand bargain" anyway.
[/quote]Which furthers my point of establishing the pattern of bungled US diplomacy in the region.
These are the same Iranians (whose median national age is 25 mind you!) that have since elected their current leadership. Obviously in the face of such an arrogant snub by the worlds eminent superpower, you're damn straight they would certainly elect a more politically extreme governing body to take care of business! (Another case in point being.. Hamas)

<IMG SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/richp62/Icons%20Avatars/inot.gif">

by **eight6** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:18 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by edisonoside[/i]

I've seen Israel show alot of civility when it comes to treating palestinians and its neighbors.

All this is about how long our memories can go, How vast our circle of thought is. How much research one can do or will do???
No one side is ever truly innocent.

[/quote]

In comparison with the way Israelis have been treated by Palestinians, I'm comfortable with my statement Edison.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/dbince/eight.gif"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/dbince/number6.gif">

by **eight6** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:28 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by 2Nu[/i]
 [quote][i]Originally posted by eight6[/i]
 
Thanks for your simplistic analysis of my cognitive abilities. The truth of the matter is if there was any quote attributable to Ahmadinejad showing him to be in any way cerebral, caring or benevolent, then I guess I would have a better understanding of his motives. As I don't, perhaps you can enlighten me as to why you think his statements are non threatening. I haven't advocated an invasion of Iran, you put those words into my mouth; I have said and continue to say Iran poses the single greatest threat to the world at this time. You can't discuss points of view and find resolutions with a government who has no interest in listening.

[/quote]
Eight6,
While the following piece of info does not contain any quotes per se, I find it interesting that no mention has yet been made of "Iran's Grand Bargain" diplomatic proposal to the US State Department brokered by the Swiss back in May of 2003 (initially reported by the Financial Times). Also reported <a href="http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2004/March/middleeast_March438.xml§ion=middleeast" target="blank">"Here"</a>, <a href="http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/001164.html" target="blank">"Here"</a>, <a href="http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E4FEA287-DBF9-4A59-BCAC-2911736E02B4.htm" target="blank">"Here"</a>, <a href="http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=32672" target="blank">"and Here"</a>

[b]"Under the plan, Iran would address US concerns over nuclear weapons, terrorism, co-ordinate policy on Iraq and consider a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the FT said.

In return, Iran would expect a lifting of sanctions, recognition of its security interests, dropping of “regime change” from the official US lexicon and eventual re-establishment of relations."[/b]

The following telling excerpt speaks volumes about the <a href="http://www.newamericancentury.org/" target="blank">"'PNAC'"</a> mindset of the DC beltway neocons:

[b]"The US gave no formal response to the Iranian offer and the Swiss foreign ministry received a rebuke from Washington for ”overstepping” its mandate, the FT said. Switzerland has looked after US interests in Iran since Washington cut ties with Teheran after the 1979 Islamic revolution."[/b]

That's great.. snub the (Iranian) offer of diplomatic relations and at the same time, rip the messenger (Switzerland) a new one![xx(]

As for all this current US - Iran sabre rattling, it rings curiously similar to the Iraq pre-invasion "Mushroom Cloud" ramp up propaganda spewed forth by the beltway hawks and the right wing punditocracy.

<IMG SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/richp62/Icons%20Avatars/inot.gif">
[/quote]

That does look like a missed opportunity to test the veracity of Iran's intent. I would like to see what Iran's track record of compliance with U.N. inspectors has been of late...something tells me it will be less than pristine. When you can't meet the low standards set out by the U.N., you as a nation aren't much for meaningful compliance with any proposal.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/dbince/eight.gif"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/dbince/number6.gif">

by **the_great_santini** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:19 pm

[quote][i]Originally posted by edisonoside[/i]
 [quote][i]Originally posted by eight6[/i]
 [quote][i]Originally posted by edisonoside[/i]
Ahh! You said the magic word-Israel. Israel is a big girl that can take care of herself.... Does Israel own our military???

[/quote]

No they don't...but they do own an impressive military of their own capable of kicking Iran's ass back to the stone age in a heartbeat. The reason they don't is that they have a sufficient amount of brain power governing them as well as civility and respect for others who have a differing view. Iran has none of those.

I've seen Israel show alot of civility when it comes to treating palestinians and its neighbors.

All this is about how long our memories can go, How vast our circle of thought is. How much research one can do or will do???
No one side is ever truly innocent.
quote]

[/quote]

An anti-Semite? Superb. A closet one at that (and you'll soon claim you're not, you just hate Israel).

Let me ask you one thing, Dr. Lightbulb, what benefit would there be to the "peace loving world" if Israel HAD to take action against Iran to pre-empt a strike against their interests? You think the Arabs around them would sit idly by and let the bombs drop?

Just to let you in on a secret, Eddie, Iran is trying to establish a throwback to their Imperial Persian days, pre-and-directy-post conversion to Islam. Instead of using the vaunted Persian chariot archers, they'll use nukes to muscle their neighbors. Iran has no direct counterweight around it (like India/Pakistan). Their expansion would be fierce and fueled by your gas money and the complete surrender of Christian Europe to cheap labor/slaves...oh, I mean immigrants from Middle East and North Africa.

by **the_great_santini** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:23 pm

[quote][i]Originally posted by 2Nu[/i]
 [quote][i]Originally posted by plagiarism[/i]
 Interesting stuff. On the other hand, the Irani president was elected in 2005 with 60% of the vote, and he doesn't seem to be the type to abide by that "grand bargain" anyway.
[/quote]Which furthers my point of establishing the pattern of bungled US diplomacy in the region.
These are the same Iranians (whose median national age is 25 mind you!) that have since elected their current leadership. Obviously in the face of such an arrogant snub by the worlds eminent superpower, you're damn straight they would certainly elect a more politically extreme governing body to take care of business! (Another case in point being.. Hamas)

<IMG SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/richp62/Icons%20Avatars/inot.gif">
[/quote]

Wrong. Read about the elections in 2005, asswipe. The reformist/liberal ticket was barred from participating, so "these Iranians" who elected the Persian Hitler aren't the same ones who elected Khatami.

Thanks for trying.

Actually, do me a favor. Please, know SOMETHING before you post, else you wind up looking sillier than you usually do, 2tu.

by **2Nu** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:38 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by the_great_santini[/i]
 

Wrong. Read about the elections in 2005, asswipe. The reformist/liberal ticket was barred from participating, so "these Iranians" who elected the Persian Hitler aren't the same ones who elected Khatami.

Thanks for trying.

Actually, do me a favor. Please, know SOMETHING before you post, else you wind up looking sillier than you usually do, 2tu.[/quote]

Ufah!! The egoist has spewed yet again!!

hmmm..making up for something you're obviously lacking self esteemwise or elsewhere in your bitter conscience eh?

Copping the shoot from the hip Hannity style defamatory, rhetorical and exclusionary stance is no way to engage another party in a rational, meaningful discourse and will only establish a (lowered) baseline by which to calibrate your integrity meter (( can we go less than ZERO?))

Now..back to what's left of this debate you so beligerently shredded.

As far as the underlying reason for the '05 Iranian power shift, it lies AGAIN.. in our failed PNAC addled Mideast diplomacy.

I stand by that statement

No surprise that's why you conveniently OMITTED my referring to Hamas gaining acceptance by the MAJORITY of the Palistinian electorate.

<IMG SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/richp62/Icons%20Avatars/inot.gif">
I'm firmly of the belief that we have become hapless citizens of <a href="http://www.starbase118.net/academy/library/alien/frules.htm" target="blank">"'Ferenginar'"</a>.

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