New Wave Outpost Forum

by **Peter Venkman** » Fri May 12, 2006 10:31 am

[quote]and the standard by which all 100%-chick groups should be judged. Bananarama. The sheer musical prowess of that band is unrivaled.
[/quote]

Bananarama is pure stool. And hey, you can dress up stool in all the pretty colors you want; put makeup on it, what have you. But when you step on it, it still smells like crap.


[i]"So I kill children, I love to see them die
I kill children and make their mamas cry
I kill children, I bang their heads in doors
I kill children, can't hardly wait for yours"[/i]--The Dead Kennedys, "I Kill Children"

by **Peter Venkman** » Fri May 12, 2006 11:00 am

[quote][i]Originally posted by milkbone[/i]
 It sort of blows the premise of this thread to note that Tina Weymouth ended up being one of the best bassists in the history of rock.
[/quote]

LOL. The closest Tina Weymouth should be allowed to get to a musical instrument is the timer on the kitchen stove.


[i]"So I kill children, I love to see them die
I kill children and make their mamas cry
I kill children, I bang their heads in doors
I kill children, can't hardly wait for yours"[/i]--The Dead Kennedys, "I Kill Children"

by **manekineko** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:20 pm

My problem with the original argument is that it assumes that because the bass is easy to play, it attracts women, who naturally have little talent. The original argument plays on the common perception of women being inferior to men and assumes that there simply must be a connection between being female and the bass being easy to play. This faulty logic completely ignores the other side of the argument--that if the bass is so easy to play, it naturally also should attract MEN of little talent. Anybody care to list the no-talent men who took up the bass because they couldn't play a real guitar? The argument doesn't make much sense when you frame it this way, does it? If you're going to argue that the bass attracts musicians of little talent, then you have to consider sucky bassists of both genders.

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/maneki_neko_kawaii/manekineko4_2.gif" border="0" alt="Image hosting by Photobucket"></a>

by **NuWaveRx** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:29 pm

Two words: Tracy Wormworth.

by **Max Murdoc** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:31 pm

Sid Vicious? You're kidding right? You have to be kidding...at least I hope you're kidding.

The music you listen to is the soundtrack of your life.

by **hexicon** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:40 pm

What Manekineko said.

If you're a South Park fan, you know that making statements about who chooses to play bass does, in fact, have racial overtones. [:D][}:)]

by **Frau_Blucher** » Fri May 12, 2006 1:06 pm

[quote][i]Originally posted by hexicon[/i]
 What Manekineko said.
[/quote]
Oh come on Hex, Paula. Tell me if I'm being a dick here if I argue this just for the sake of argument (which is what this thread really is about, right?!)...

No doubt that Venkman is having some fun with this topic, but if we just stick to the statements that are in his original phrase, the flow of logic would seem to go like this...

1. I'll assume there's lots of guys who start bands, more guy bands than girl bands.
2. Lots of those guys have wanted girlfriends to be in the band.
3. The easiest instrument to pick up - albeit not necessarily become virtuous at - is the bass, which "takes no talent to play" AND "thus, it enables a bandmate's girlfriend to join in the fun" - the key here, the “enabling” circumstance, not the "no talent" part.
4. Thus there's lots of female bass players who are also girlfriends of band members - end of Venkmans' assumptions.

It doesn't say anywhere that women naturally have no talent. It says playing the bass requires no talent AND combined with circumstances where non-musician women might want to join their boyfriend's band, voila, lots of female bass players. Sure it attracts men with no talent as well (Sting anyone? heh!), but that's not what the subject is about. It's also not about great female bass players, who are certainly out there. Neither does the presence of great female bass players negate that there might be other female bass players who got into it for other reasons.

So why the dismissal of Venkman's prima fascia statements and overreaching conclusions? I realize "takes no talent" is juxtaposed in there, mucking up the whole point, but I take that as Venkman's razzing, and that's how most people seemed to respond to it. Zeroing in on one perceived offense and ignoring everything else threatens to smack of PC culture at it's worst IMHO. I say respond in kind, bash him for the "timer on the kitchen" comment, or retort that he has a small penis and is threatened by females wielding large axes! [:0][:D]

<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~myirwin/Scroll.gif">

by **Peter Venkman** » Fri May 12, 2006 1:28 pm

[quote] I say respond in kind, bash him for the "timer on the kitchen" comment, or retort that he has a small penis and is threatened by females wielding large axes! [:0][:D]
<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~myirwin/Scroll.gif">
[/quote]
Hey, I [i]like[/i] female guitar players. To me, Chrissie Hynde and Joan Jett1 have always been more appealing and attractive than clueless airheads like Siobhan Fahey. A caveat being that they're [b]rock[/b] guitarists, not wimpy folkies like Jewel and Ani DiFranco. Folk guitarists of any sex make my stomach churn.

And, I will add a footnote to my original statement (which I refuse to rescind). I will say that Jane Wiedlin--the bassist--is also my favorite Go-Go--both in looks, Go-Gos songs and post-Go-Go recorded output.

I see the "timer on the kitchen stove" line had the desired effect. Thanks for playing!

1. Who may or may not be a lesbian. It doesn't matter.


[i]"So I kill children, I love to see them die
I kill children and make their mamas cry
I kill children, I bang their heads in doors
I kill children, can't hardly wait for yours"[/i]--The Dead Kennedys, "I Kill Children"

by **manekineko** » Fri May 12, 2006 1:35 pm

Blir, you're being a dick. [;)] But that's beside the point. [:D]

Peter said, "The reason that there are so many female bassists is because it takes no talent to play the bass." True, he didn't actually SAY that women have no talent, but his statement directed us to that "logical" conclusion. How else are we supposed to take that statement?

I don't disagree that girlfriends join bands because the bass is easy to play. And I suspect Peter started this thread all in fun, maybe playing devil's advocate to watch us squirm. However, I do disagree with the pervasive logic that assumes that women's choice of career or hobby is due to some natural shortcoming on their part. We don't jump to that conclusion about men, so why do it about women?

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by **Frau_Blucher** » Fri May 12, 2006 1:41 pm

You're misquoting him...there's no period at the end of "bass." It's at the end of "enables a bandmate's girlfriend to join in the fun." You're taking things out of context, purposefully trying to drive a male/female divide. SEXIST! SEXIST!! SEXIST!!!

<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~myirwin/Scroll.gif">

by **manekineko** » Fri May 12, 2006 1:50 pm

No, I'm not misquoting him. He put a semicolon at the end of that clause, enabling it to stand alone as a sentence. The second clause, "thus, it enables a bandmate's girlfriend to join in the fun", is a separate thought. I'm not taking it out of context at all. His context is pretty clear to me. And you're calling me sexist? [:D]

No offense, Peter! [:D]

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/maneki_neko_kawaii/manekineko4_2.gif" border="0" alt="Image hosting by Photobucket"></a>

by **Peter Venkman** » Fri May 12, 2006 2:01 pm

[quote][i]Originally posted by manekineko[/i]
 No, I'm not misquoting him. He put a semicolon at the end of that clause, enabling it to stand alone as a sentence. The second clause, "thus, it enables a bandmate's girlfriend to join in the fun", is a separate thought. I'm not taking it out of context at all. His context is pretty clear to me. And you're calling me sexist?
[/quote]

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html


[i]"So I kill children, I love to see them die
I kill children and make their mamas cry
I kill children, I bang their heads in doors
I kill children, can't hardly wait for yours"[/i]--The Dead Kennedys, "I Kill Children"

by **manekineko** » Fri May 12, 2006 2:29 pm

Good grief. Of course the two clauses are linked by the word "thus". I think I understand what he was trying to say--his point being that girlfriends join the fun because the bass is easy to play, and I agree. But that doesn't diminish the impact of the first statement--that women play the bass because it takes no talent, regardless of what comes after the semicolon.

We're talking about colons... [:D]

Thanks, Peter, for the link. Interesting. Perhaps I did distort your intent, but that is a pretty inflammatory statement just before the semicolon.

It's late. I'm out.

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/maneki_neko_kawaii/manekineko4_2.gif" border="0" alt="Image hosting by Photobucket"></a>

by **EverydayItsTomorrow** » Fri May 12, 2006 5:59 pm

Actually this has gotten ridiculus!

The whole point of New Wave and especially Punk was to start a band if you could
play or not. We're not talking Mozart here, 2 or 3 chord songs.
Mostly verse-chorus-verse-bridge-chorus-chorus; it's arty pop music and I
love it because of it!!!!!

Is Mariah Carey a better singer than Siouxsie Sioux because she has more range
and voice control, maybe. But who would you rather listen to?

Singling out women is bizarre since it was all about all of your friends starting
a band skilled or not.

Blir, If you don't think there is an ounce of sexist subtext than I think you need
to be less insensitive.

by **Peter Venkman** » Fri May 12, 2006 7:03 pm

[quote][i]Originally posted by EverydayItsTomorrow[/i]
 Actually this has gotten ridiculus!

The whole point of New Wave and especially Punk was to start a band if you could play or not. We're not talking Mozart here, 2 or 3 chord songs.
Mostly verse-chorus-verse-bridge-chorus-chorus; it's arty pop music and I
love it because of it!!!!![/quote]

I didn't say I didn't love it. I was just making an observation.

[quote]Is Mariah Carey a better singer than Siouxsie Sioux because she has more range and voice control, maybe. But who would you rather listen to?[/quote]

Siouxsie was an awesome vocalist from about 1977-1982...then she kind of screwed up her voice a few months prior to the release of AKITD. After that, her voice lacked the anger and power that characterized her earlier works; it's a credit to the band that they still maintained to put out awesome work with Siouxsie's downgraded vocals.1

[quote]Singling out women is bizarre since it was all about all of your friends starting a band skilled or not.[/quote]

Yeah, with the [i]girl[/i]friend being given the bass guitar.

[quote]Blir, If you don't think there is an ounce of sexist subtext than I think you need to be less insensitive.[/quote]

Sensitivity is the disease of dogs.

And, hey, I'm not sexist! It's all the jerks of the world--your TV Smiths, your Chris Franzes, your Billy Corgans, your Thurston Moores, your Randy Stodolas who kept giving their girlfriends such an unchallenging instrument to play, instead of keyboards or drums--they're the sexist ones!

1. I'm a big Banshees fan...and she's still way better than Glitter girl.


[i]"So I kill children, I love to see them die
I kill children and make their mamas cry
I kill children, I bang their heads in doors
I kill children, can't hardly wait for yours"[/i]--The Dead Kennedys, "I Kill Children"

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