Bump: Why the God Bashing?

[Klaus Von Konrad]

[quote][i]Originally posted by hexicon[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by phillyidol[/i]
<br>Your all going to hell. (I'm keeding I keed!)
[/quote]

If I go any place at all--other than to the compost heap as per my Materialism rating on the other thread--I hope that I'm going to Limbo. Mr. Hex is a practicing Catholic and I am an atheist. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, those who die in original sin (i.e., unbaptized) without having committed "grievous personal sin" go to Limbo: "Now it may confidently be said that, as the result of centuries of speculation on the subject, we ought to believe that these souls enjoy and will eternally enjoy a state of perfect natural happiness[.]" The risk I run is that my atheism, though sincere, may in itself be a grievous personal sin.

According to Evelyn Waugh (author of Brideshead Revisited and other novels and commentary): "Limbo is the place. In Limbo one has natural happiness without the beatific vision; no harps; no communal order; but wine and conversation and imperfect, various humanity. Limbo for the unbaptized, for the pious heathen, the sincere sceptic."

Sounds OK to me.

[/quote]

Time to get a new Catholic Encyclopedia.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... world.html

Limbo is about to go the way of the Macarena. Evidently, these 30 top Catholic scholars agreed that this doctrine really was a load of bullshit all along. First the Mormons outlaw polygamy and allow blacks to become priests, then the Catholics get rid of limbo --- at least the Scientologists don't waver on what bullshit they believe in. They are pretty confident that their belief in the evil galactic overload Xenu is quite reasonable.

[beatschool]

Holy crap! A Klaus Von Konrad sighting!

[beatschool]

[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by hutter[/i]
<br>Something else we agree on, Beats. Although a believer, I'm turned off by the mindless Jesus freaks who use the Bible as a weapon (I'm sure Jesus is so proud). I'm also just as turned off by "evangelical atheists". I have no use for neither. A nut is a nut.
[/quote]

A nut may be a nut, but some nuts are far more harmful than others. The biggest harm that could come from a society of atheists is what ..... socialism, maybe? Even that's a stretch. The biggest harm that can come from a society of believers is genocide.

Still, it is true that even if religion did magically disappear, the nutjobs would just start cults and go to war over something equally as stupid like who is better for Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston or Angelina Jolie. [V]
[/quote]

I gotta disagree with you on this one Motors. I think a society run by atheists would suffer from an equal number of problems. The former USSR, China, Cuba were, or still are, all "godless" societies and I wouldn't live under their shitty concepts of government for a second. Just going by the percentages, it seems like a certain number of people are nuts regardless of faith or the lack thereof.

[Ollie Stench]

I have found what works for me. It works for me and me alone. I cannot fathom forcing my beliefs on anyone else. My hope is that others will discover what they need to make thier lives whole and embrace it whole-heartedly.

What works for me may not work for other people and I don't expect it to. In the interest of fair exchange, I don't expect others to want me to follow their beliefs regardless of the depths of their convictions. That's not to deny their beliefs, to say that they are "right" or "wrong".

I am an athiest from birth. One of my earliest memories, before I started kindergarten, is asking my mom why people believe in a God. I don't feel any emptiness or void. However, my beliefs belong to me. I don't try to convince people I am right, because it is only "right" for me. However I am fully aware that in order for me to believe (or not believe as the case may be) what I feel, I CANNOT deny others the right to believe what they feel.

And I agree, I come the the NWO to talk about music, culture, et al. While religion can have a part in the discussions, I'd rather talk about John Ruth than John 3:16

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by beatschool[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by hutter[/i]
<br>Something else we agree on, Beats. Although a believer, I'm turned off by the mindless Jesus freaks who use the Bible as a weapon (I'm sure Jesus is so proud). I'm also just as turned off by "evangelical atheists". I have no use for neither. A nut is a nut.
[/quote]

A nut may be a nut, but some nuts are far more harmful than others. The biggest harm that could come from a society of atheists is what ..... socialism, maybe? Even that's a stretch. The biggest harm that can come from a society of believers is genocide.

Still, it is true that even if religion did magically disappear, the nutjobs would just start cults and go to war over something equally as stupid like who is better for Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston or Angelina Jolie. [V]
[/quote]

I gotta disagree with you on this one Motors. I think a society run by atheists would suffer from an equal number of problems. The former USSR, China, Cuba were, or still are, all "godless" societies and I wouldn't live under their shitty concepts of government for a second. Just going by the percentages, it seems like a certain number of people are nuts regardless of faith or the lack thereof.
[/quote]


I had forgotten about good ol' Fidel, maybe because he's mellowed so much [B)]. China and Russia have their problems and the U.S. may be preferable to that now, but just give it a few years and that will change. I'm not so sure I wouldn't take my chances in either one of those countries.

Looks like Norway and Iceland are ranked 1 and 2 on the most livable countries list. Both are predominantly Evangelical Lutheran. Maybe that's the religion with the fewest psychos? No idea.

[WolverineSyr]

[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
Looks like Norway and Iceland are ranked 1 and 2 on the most livable countries list. Both are predominantly Evangelical Lutheran. Maybe that's the religion with the fewest psychos? No idea.

[/quote]

From what I understand about those, and and the other Northern countries, is that there is very little religion seeping into politics and public health issues, as it does in America.

The Northern countries have the lowest HIV, std and teen pregnancy rates anywhere in the world, due to comprehensive mandated sex ed. from elementary school on up to high school. I have also heard that they look at abortion & contraception as a public health issue rather than a moral or religious one.

It's a different culture, no better or worse than our own depending on your beliefs. Personally, I like it. Before 2000 there were a lot of U.S. educators going over to learn the curriculum & study the impact of those health policies. After 2000 that stopped happening...

As for religion - believe what you believe. I like hearing about other people's religon. I'm always amazed at everyone's interpretation. I'm fortunate in that I work with people on both ends of the spectrum. When I have questions, I can get some pretty diverse views.

I don't like when it used as weapon.

[phillyidol]

But you can use sex as a weapon! ....As long as Love is a battlefield![xx(]
I'm proud of everyone here. We are talking heavy duty shit and there is no name calling. We have progressed as a society. Please continue...I'll be over here.(in the corner)

[hexicon]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Klaus Von Konrad[/i]
<br>[[/quote]

Time to get a new Catholic Encyclopedia.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... world.html

Limbo is about to go the way of the Macarena. Evidently, these 30 top Catholic scholars agreed that this doctrine really was a load of bullshit all along. First the Mormons outlaw polygamy and allow blacks to become priests, then the Catholics get rid of limbo --- at least the Scientologists don't waver on what bullshit they believe in. They are pretty confident that their belief in the evil galactic overload Xenu is quite reasonable.
[/quote]

Good point (the RC's better update the on-line version, then).

Ah well, I put more faith in Evelyn Waugh than in the Church anyway. [;)]

[KYYX4ever]

re: atheists can be nuts, too.

One of the things that makes me roll my eyes is when you have atheists who get all bent out of shape about public displays of religion and how it "infringes" on their "rights". Oy! I've said it before--I personally may not believe, but it sure doesn't bother me if I'm at, say, a football game and there's a prayer beforehand. Everyone bows their head and prays along. Other than thinking they may just be a bunch of sheep, it doesn't bother me. Why should it ? I certainly wouldn't view it as infringing on my "rights".

[bpdp3]

Can't believe I'm going to weigh in on this, but it's a good topic and I can't resist....

It was interesting to read hutter's opening post, saying that all the crap he's been through convinces him there's a higher power. Looking back at all the crap I've been through in my life, I'm more convinced there may NOT be one. What he has, and I could never muster, and I've always admired, is FAITH.

To TRULY believe in something that everyone knows is not 'logical' requires incredible resolve. To try to convince others of the same is even more so.
Sure, we can have faith in a Significant Other or a sports team or even in the thought of The Jam re-forming, but this is different. This is faith in something you may never really have any kind of experience in - - as if you're taking someone's word for it. That's not an easy road to take because obviously alot of people are going to see it as lame-brained stupidity.

And yet I don't have the guts to call myself an atheist either; I'm not ready to say there is no God. I like to think that IF there is a God, he has patience for someone like me who is filled with doubt. Like most of you, I just try to be a decent guy, be decent to others, and hope that when it's my time things work out alright in the end.

[abacab66]

Wouldn't you say it takes faith to be an atheist? You have to have faith in the theories of scientists. They're called theories because they haven't or can't be proved. No one was there when the universe began so how do we no for sure how it all started. As far as I know there really hasn't been too much found in the archeology department to support Darwinian evolution so you need "faith" to believe that Darwin was correct. All I'm saying is that you can't prove that evolution is 100% and I don't think you could prove that there isn't a god or other higher intelligence. In the end an atheist's "faith" isn't much different than that of a believers.

[bpdp3]

Yes, abacab, I think you're right; it takes faith to follow the scientific approach as well...'cos, what if you're wrong?? That's a pretty big chance to take for your beliefs as well I suppose.

But I think maybe it's easier to have faith in science, especially in this day and age when it's so well-proven all around us. For example, because of the rate of medical breakthroughs, it's easier for me to have absolute faith in them finding a cure for cancer or AIDS then for me to have that absolute faith in the higher power.

[phillyidol]

George Michael says you gotta have faith. He also says alot of other stuff I wont repeat.[:I]

[Quite Life]

[quote]Originally posted by hutter
[br]I'm far from being the best example of Christianity, but am I the only believer on this site? Is it supposed to be "cool" to slam anyone who has religious convictions (that aren't wacky)? If it is, I'll keep on being "uncool". And I'm sure as hell not "weak minded". You live through the crap I've lived through over the years, and you'd be stupid not to believe in a higher power.

Someone, ANYONE tell me I'm not alone here.
[/quote]

Hunter You are not the only believer in this board. I by the grace of God am a "REFORMED" (calvinists) evangelical. A member of the Orthodox Prebyterian Church http://www.opc.org/ I have on many times during the history of this board pulled out the Van Tillian/Greg Bahnsen Aplogetics (presupositionalism) and whipped these aithiest around like a beaten dog. My apologies for sounding so offensive [;)]. It would be great if the Lord would be gracious and grant some of those on this board faith and repentance that has always been my prayer. But mostly 99% of the time I do talk about punk and new wave. But sometimes when the need arrives I shut down and refute with quite ease objections to historic bible believing evangelical Protestantism. I go after athiest, pagans of all sorts, cults like Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Moonies and all other isms, shisms, and spasms and most of all Papists (Roman Catholics). Put it simply if you do not subscribe to a historical protistant creed i.e. Presbyterian or Dutch Reformed(Westminster Standards or Three Forms of Unity), Baptists (London or Philly Confession or the historic Southern Baptist one), or Lutherien (Book of Concord, Augustburg Confession or Luthers Shorter or Larger) more than likely I will pick on you!!![:D][}:)][8D] Here is a good site if you want to learn good apoligetics to refute your athiest, pagan or cultic friends
http://www.reformed.org/

24To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

Jude 24-25

cheers hutter,
jr

[phillyidol]

Ahem...that would be ...Hutter not hunter.[:D]