Your Opinion About GOD

[abacab66]

[quote][i]Originally posted by eight6[/i]
Maybe you want to take a shot at my question: [i]" If I were to live my life as per the dictates of the Bible/Koran/whatever and chose to ignore the deity worship end of things, does that make me less of a person in the eyes of God/Allah/whatever?"[/i] because really, it should be about more than simple servitude, right?
[/quote]
I'd like to take a stab at this question from the Bible's point of view. I can't speak for other religious views.

The two are actually bound together. If you wanted to live your life "per the dictates" of the Bible, you would ultimately be worshipping God.
34 After the Pharisees heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they came together in one group. 35 And one of them, versed in the Law, asked, testing him: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love the Lord your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”(Matthew 22:34-40)
I see a big difference between being forced to serve someone and loving someone. What's your motive for serving? If it's a selfish one then it's obviously for the wrong reasons.
In a very simplistic way I'd compare it to the parent/child relationship. The parent loves the child, the child loves the parent. They both enjoy doing good things for each other. Sometimes the parent needs to discipline the child but the child doesn't love the parent any less. The child will probably develop a healthy fear of displeasing the parent and thus avoid doing wrong things, which will only benefit the child and in return brings honor to the parent.

The idea of hellfire is a non-biblical idea and goes against the loving God of the Bible I've come to know and love. What parent would punish their child by sticking their hand in a fire and keeping it there?

[eight6]

[quote][i]Originally posted by abacab66[/i]


1. He said to him: “‘You must love the Lord your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment.

2. The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”(Matthew 22:34-40)


[/quote]

I can abide by the second statement (as long as they don't bleat on about The Colourfield). For me, attempting to fulfill the first statement is why the second statement will never come to pass.

Item 1 requires religion, item 2 doesn't.






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[hutter]

What the hell, Abacab? (no pun intended). According to the KJV of the Holy Bible (the most accurate english translation) Hell is a very real place. Here's just one reference of many, this one from one of the Gospels, straight from Jesus' own lips:

"But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after he has killed, has power to cast into Hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!" (Luke 12:5)

If the Son of God acknoledges the existence of Hell (hence eternal torment for sinners) who gives you the right to contradict him? Maybe you serve a Jesus of your own creation (in that case, good luck with that) but the real Jesus Christ made it very clear, along with the Apostles, that Hell and eternal punishment for unrepented sins is a very real thing.

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by abacab66[/i]

In a very simplistic way I'd compare it to the parent/child relationship. The parent loves the child, the child loves the parent. They both enjoy doing good things for each other. Sometimes the parent needs to discipline the child but the child doesn't love the parent any less. The child will probably develop a healthy fear of displeasing the parent and thus avoid doing wrong things, which will only benefit the child and in return brings honor to the parent.

[/quote]

Yikes. Am I reading this wrong? "Sometimes the parent needs to discipline the child but the child doesn't love the parent any less"? How does "god" discipline his children? You mean like Hurricane Katrina? Tsunamis?


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Results:
Too much damage done. Go away. [78%] 63 votes
Yah! Kimiiii is back! Hip hip hooray! [22%] 18 votes

[hutter]

[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by abacab66[/i]

In a very simplistic way I'd compare it to the parent/child relationship. The parent loves the child, the child loves the parent. They both enjoy doing good things for each other. Sometimes the parent needs to discipline the child but the child doesn't love the parent any less. The child will probably develop a healthy fear of displeasing the parent and thus avoid doing wrong things, which will only benefit the child and in return brings honor to the parent.

[/quote]

Yikes. Am I reading this wrong? "Sometimes the parent needs to discipline the child but the child doesn't love the parent any less"? How does "god" discipline his children? You mean like Hurricane Katrina? Tsunamis?

[/quote]
Good grief, Motors. Don't tell me that you subsribe to that Dr. Spock shit. Sometimes a kid need a smack on the backside to keep them in line.

[i_like_lectric_motors]

Of course they do Hutter but what child deserves a hurricane?

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Results:
Too much damage done. Go away. [78%] 63 votes
Yah! Kimiiii is back! Hip hip hooray! [22%] 18 votes

[abacab66]

If I don't subscribe to the belief in Hellfire, why would I believe that God punishes people with natural disasters?

[i_like_lectric_motors]

XXX is totally right. All I know is that if it turns out we all have to answer to "god", I'm fine with that. The gnashing of teeth, eternal flames, .... yawn, whatever. At least in this ridiculous hyptothetical scenario I'd get to say "You know what dude? Go fuck yourself. Burn me all you want but you suck and you're not even fit to manage a Mr. Ding-A-Ling truck, much less rule a universe."

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Results:
Too much damage done. Go away. [78%] 63 votes
Yah! Kimiiii is back! Hip hip hooray! [22%] 18 votes

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by abacab66[/i]
<br>If I don't subscribe to the belief in Hellfire, why would I believe that God punishes people with natural disasters?
[/quote]

Then what "punishment" did you mean? More mundane stuff like job loss or maybe the wind ruining satellite reception???

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Results:
Too much damage done. Go away. [78%] 63 votes
Yah! Kimiiii is back! Hip hip hooray! [22%] 18 votes

[ben_at_work]

[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>XXX is totally right. All I know is that if it turns out we all have to answer to "god", I'm fine with that. The gnashing of teeth, eternal flames, .... yawn, whatever. At least in this ridiculous hyptothetical scenario I'd get to say "You know what dude? Go fuck yourself. Burn me all you want but you suck and you're not even fit to manage a Mr. Ding-A-Ling truck, much less rule a universe."

[/quote]

[:0][:0] WOW! [:0][:0]
Motors! I suggest you don't say that. [:0]

[abacab66]

[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by abacab66[/i]
<br>If I don't subscribe to the belief in Hellfire, why would I believe that God punishes people with natural disasters?
[/quote]
Then what "punishment" did you mean? More mundane stuff like job loss or maybe the wind ruining satellite reception???
[/quote]

From a Biblical standpoint, there is a big difference between discipline and punishment. God’s acts of punishment are not always aimed at correcting or educating the recipient. (ex. Flood of Noah's day, Sodom & Gomorrah, the Egyptians at the Red Sea)
Discipline as expressed in the Bible has many aspects—guidance, instruction, training, reproof, correction, and even punishment. However, in each case, God’s discipline is motivated by love, and its goal is to benefit the recipient. God’s corrective discipline is never for the sole purpose of punishment.
“The one whom The Lord loves he reproves, even as a father does a son in whom he finds pleasure.”—Proverbs 3:12.
So in reality, discipline from God is given to those he loves to instruct them so that they might gain the benefit of it. He doesn't look to discipline those who have no interest in serving him.

[abacab66]

[quote][i]Originally posted by hutter[/i]
<br>What the hell, Abacab? (no pun intended). According to the KJV of the Holy Bible (the most accurate english translation) Hell is a very real place. Here's just one reference of many, this one from one of the Gospels, straight from Jesus' own lips:

"But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after he has killed, has power to cast into Hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!" (Luke 12:5)

If the Son of God acknoledges the existence of Hell (hence eternal torment for sinners) who gives you the right to contradict him? Maybe you serve a Jesus of your own creation (in that case, good luck with that) but the real Jesus Christ made it very clear, along with the Apostles, that Hell and eternal punishment for unrepented sins is a very real thing.
[/quote]Um, hutter. Where in that scripture does it mention the kind of place Hell is? I believe in Hell, not Hellfire.

Ps. 9:17, KJ: “The wicked shall be turned into hell,* and all the nations that forget God.” (So the wicked do go to hell)

Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell,* and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a time when thou wilt remember me?” (God himself said that Job was “a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad.”—Job 14:13.) (*“The grave,” KJ; (Job wanted to go to Hell. I thought Job was a good guy?)

“The sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell* delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.”Rev. 20:13, 14 (So the dead will be delivered from hell. Notice also that hell is not the same as the lake of fire but will be cast into the lake of fire.)

“The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol,* the place to which you are going.” Eccl. 9:5, 10 “the grave,” KJ(If they are conscious of nothing, they obviously feel no pain.)

“The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” Ezek. 18:4(Imagine that, souls die.)

"Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment." John 5:28,29 (What is the need of the resurrection if you're eternally damned to hell or eternally blessed by entrance into heaven)

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by abacab66[/i]

So in reality, discipline from God is given to those he loves to instruct them so that they might gain the benefit of it. He doesn't look to discipline those who have no interest in serving him.
[/quote]

Okay - good. Thanks. Now I get where you were coming from.



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Results:
Too much damage done. Go away. [78%] 63 votes
Yah! Kimiiii is back! Hip hip hooray! [22%] 18 votes

[eight6]

[quote][i]Originally posted by abacab66[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by abacab66[/i]
<br>If I don't subscribe to the belief in Hellfire, why would I believe that God punishes people with natural disasters?
[/quote]
Then what "punishment" did you mean? More mundane stuff like job loss or maybe the wind ruining satellite reception???
[/quote]

From a Biblical standpoint, there is a big difference between discipline and punishment. God’s acts of punishment are not always aimed at correcting or educating the recipient. (ex. Flood of Noah's day, Sodom & Gomorrah, the Egyptians at the Red Sea)
Discipline as expressed in the Bible has many aspects—guidance, instruction, training, reproof, correction, and even punishment. However, in each case, God’s discipline is motivated by love, and its goal is to benefit the recipient. God’s corrective discipline is never for the sole purpose of punishment.
“The one whom The Lord loves he reproves, even as a father does a son in whom he finds pleasure.”—Proverbs 3:12.
So in reality, discipline from God is given to those he loves to instruct them so that they might gain the benefit of it. He doesn't look to discipline those who have no interest in serving him.
[/quote]


"God's discipline is motivated by love" and "He doesn't look to discipline those who have no interest in serving him." are contradictions if he is supposed to love all he has "created". Right?



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[edisonoside]

If given a choice, would you want to live in a deathless, forever-happy painless artificial fantasy world where GOD polices us? A world were NOTHING dies or suffers....If nothing dies?.. What will you eat? Who would you chose to live forever? Where would you place suffering?

Or are you "satisfied" with what we have now? I believe that this is the best GOD can do. A world full of life. An existence of natural cycles. A Life with a beginning and an end. For that IS life.

Would you rather GOD to be your slave, A genie in a bottle that calls you master?

A GOD that gives you eternal life here and now? A GOD that will make you GOD-like?

GOD created life and lets it run it's coarse. Would you have the discipline and patience to do that?