Most Divisive Issue?

[Frau_Blucher]

[quote][i]Originally posted by beatschool[/i]
<br>Finally, I appreciate you misguidedly lumping me in with Shovelbum. I challenge you to find a single word of support in any of my posts towards her or her argument.[/quote]
Well, apologies for that egregious mistake then!

[beatschool]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Blir[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by beatschool[/i]
<br>Finally, I appreciate you misguidedly lumping me in with Shovelbum. I challenge you to find a single word of support in any of my posts towards her or her argument.[/quote]
Well, apologies for that egregious mistake then!
[/quote]

Aw, thanks, I think.

I still think it is funny that I get lumped in with liberals. When forced to label myself, I choose to be a practical egalitarian. Equal disdain for all races, equal hatred for all religions (including atheism), and so on.

I should apologize for wording my initial response to Motors so rudely. I tend to be a bit caustic in writing. But he's a rude fucker too, so I doubt he really cares. It must be my Iranian side practicing racism (bigotry, actually) towards his white ass.

PS - What a dump!

[shovelbum]

[quote][i]Originally posted by eight6[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by Blir[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by beatschool[/i]
<br>Another cop-out.
[/quote] I might tend to agree more with the likes of you and Shovelbum politically, but your brand of egocentric liberalism helps give liberals the bad name and pompous charicature they have IMHO.

I'm not egocentric. You're just as bad calling that kettle black. If I don't argue, I'm a "twat", but if I do take up the debate I'm egocentric. It is true that all people are culturally ingrained to look upon matters based on their own cultural interpretation. You can't take the culture out of a person. But at least I try to see both sides.

"Look, I have facts, I have proof, and now I'll go do yoga because I revel in how superior it all feels!!!"

I provided facts in an effort to supply data because people asked for it, and because it supports my argument. If I say, "You just have to believe me, so there" then I lose in your book because I'm not interested in "enlightening the unenlightenable". It's interesting to note that YOU are the one who suggested that I thought I was superior just because I provided facts. I provided facts for others benefit, to share knowledge, not to achieve some faux status. You're the one who seems overly concerned with status and superiority. Also, I don't do yoga. I prefer volleyball- a sport based on team cooperation and pure aggression.

Bullshit! You have some info colored by your perceptions just like everyone else, but you assume your stance is FACT while others' cannot possibly be because you're just so damned certain and clever despite being equally devoid of any quoted data.

Huh? You just said I was guilty of introducing fact/data and NOW you say I was devoid of any quoted data? Maybe I misunderstood the rant- can you rephrase for my simple mind?

You're just as extreme as your polar opposites and people should have equal disdain for both. No concept of means and ends. It's how conservatives have been able to appeal to the unwashed masses and stay in power.
[/quote]

Gray is a good area when it comes to empathy and tolerance, but nothing gets done in life, nothing achieved without drive and ambition. You can't say I don't have a concept of means and ends when I propose that specialized language education can help make a difference. I may be wrong, but at least I am trying to find a means to an end!!! All you've done is bitch and fuss. How do you suggest we fix the problem- oh wait, maybe you don't have any time to think about it because you are too busy making sure that no one else is as superior as yourself?

And by the way, this is just a casual debate- so why are you so hot and bothered? Sound like a personal problem to me. It's not my shit, so I don't really care.

As for conservatives staying in power- I'm sorry, who's in Congress now?????

So unless you have something really provocative to add, something that lends to the good of humanity, something positive, then why don't you go strike a yoga pose and get a hold of yourself, man!

My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father, prepare to die.
[/quote]

This post is confusing...I don't know who is saying what. When I played hockey, we were always in fear we would cross paths with an angry mob of volleyballers, such is the level of their aggression..

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/dbince/086scan.gif" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

[/quote]

ha ha. Yes, if you come at us with your stick we may have to bump, set, spike you. (Wouldn't that be a GREAT match?!)

Sorry for the confusion- for some reason I can't seem to figure out how to place my own quotes within those of others. Give me time- I'm learning.

My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father, prepare to die.

[shovelbum]

[quote][i]Originally posted by WolverineSyr[/i]
<br>I don't buy the "other dialects held me back" argument. Are we to presume that seperate textbooks be made? Seperate classes? Seperate job applications?

Would that not only further the divide? My family & especially my extended family are pretty rural. They have a weird vernacular that might not be recognizable to others - but they accomodate their language to the audience. It's not that hard to do & it's not hard to learn.

I'm not big on special rules for special people. I'm well aware of my privilege in life as a white male - but I would be willing to extend that to anyone (as I think most everyone here would too.) I think if you don't like racism, then recognize what privilege our culture gives you & how you can share that with other people.

With that also comes an element of playing by the percieved rules of the broader culture & a common language is one of them.
[/quote]

Wolverine, I suppose I'm just not doing a very good job of making myself clear. What I am proposing is not that these people have special rules and live to a separate standard. I am proposing that we have a program where we identify these kids who are raised in families where standard English is not spoken and/or encouraged and do a little more to help them to learn it. If they can't learn it at home then someone else has to step up to the plate because a bunch of kindergartners don't know how to go to bat for themselves. Sociologically speaking, being part of a community is important, and it has been found that these children feel awkward in a class setting where they are perceived as "stupid" because they don't get the gist of things. When the child DOES use the standard English they are often antagonized by their own social group and made to feel ostracized from their community. They feel peer pressure and end up resisting standard english.

The good news is that studies done 15 years ago and then again recently have shown that this trend is starting to change. I think with proper encouragement and resources these kids can learn to assimilate to our "standard language" even more quickly.

My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father, prepare to die.

[shovelbum]

[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>I fucking hate anything that enables ignorance and stupidity. Like I said, these people need to get the hell OUT of their shit-ass environment and make some real moves if they want any real change in their lives. I don't give a rat's how hard it is. People come to the US on rafts FFS without a word of English - ANY dialect. These island people are U.S. citizens and have access to some great programs funded by those of us in a 40% tax bracket for which we work 60-70 hours a week to be in.

Oh and Blir, just in case you haven't heard.....liberalism is DEAD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c

<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/">[i]You on the guestlist?[/i]</a>
[/quote]

Jeez, Marv, I like your passionate side! And I agree that there are leeches in the system! I agree that there are people who live in their shit ass environments and just accept their place and take the "govt. dole". But if we don't reach out to their kids asap, then their kids grow up to be just like them and then THEY have kids and the problem just gets exponentially worse. I think (even if language is not the issue) that the key is getting to the kids while their young and showing them the way- because their parents aren't gonna do it for them.

Oh, and certainly there are people who get on rafts and float here and become hugely successful in life. But there are also those who set up their own little isolated communities in which they only speal their own language and don't try to assimilate at all (while at the same time taking advantage of govt. programs!). Urrrrgh.

It does set a tax-payers hair on fire, doesn't it?

And just in case I'm misinterpreting you and you are actually mention the island people (Gullah) of the Carolina-Georgia coasts they are too friggin ignorant to figure out how to access those programs, and no one here thinks about them too much anyway because they are "out of sight out of mind". So who's caring for their kids?

I know it's injust that we should have to clean up other people's messes, but as a mother I have to remember that the kids didn't ask for this and they are just kids.

Somehow the cycle must be broken.

My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father, prepare to die.

[eight6]

[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]

Yes, if you come at us with your stick we may have to bump, set, spike you. (Wouldn't that be a GREAT match?!)


[/quote]


Oh no, the dreaded BSS. Normally we only see the BS here, and true to form, this thread has had no shortage of it.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/dbince/086scan.gif" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

[eight6]

[quote][i]Originally posted by beatschool[/i]
I'm not trying to win any popularity contests or be part of the NWO gang. That ain't what floats my boat.

[/quote]

LOL. There it is again...this is THE biggest load of shit ever laid here. What fucking NWO gang?

[quote]

Head spinning. Must go take a dump.
[/quote]

Maybe I spoke too soon about the above load of shit...please post the results for comparison purposes.



<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/dbince/086scan.gif" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

[MARV]

Seriously.....all kidding aside.....America's number one MOST divisive issue is the battle between the legions of mp3 users and aac users. Talk amongst yourselves.

<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/">[i]You on the guestlist?[/i]</a>

[Frau_Blucher]

[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>Seriously.....all kidding aside.....America's number one MOST divisive issue is the battle between the legions of mp3 users and aac users. Talk amongst yourselves.
[/quote]
So you and FUMAS are now a [i]Legion[/i]?! [}:)]

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by beatschool[/i]


I should apologize for wording my initial response to Motors so rudely. I tend to be a bit caustic in writing. But he's a rude fucker too, so I doubt he really cares. It must be my Iranian side practicing racism (bigotry, actually) towards his white ass.


[/quote]

LOL! Works for me. You can be as rude or as caustic as you want ... it's not like I'm out of my element in that arena. [8D]

The whole reason I initially avoided the question? Take a look at the date of the thread and when I initially posted that - 2/14/07. Less than 6 hours later, you made a post of your own in the thread yet somehow either missed my statement entirely or didn't figure it was worth responding to at the time. UNTIL ... a month and a half goes by and someone else tries to call me on it. Then you jump in and try to BULLY [:D] me into explaining why I said it. At that point, I decided it would be much more fun to just fuck with everyone, as Blir has so eloquently opined.

As for my reasons ... I said that today white people are primarily the victims of racism. I so believe that. Sometime in the not so recent past, things have over-corrected.

I meant affirmative action, which has already been covered ad nauseum.

The fucking whining about their not being enough black head coaches in pro sports.

I meant shit like BET.

I meant the ridiculous double standard that makes it Ok for black comedians to slam white people, but god forbid a white person try to do the same to blacks. Unless it's Sarah Silverman, who probably gets a pass for being Jewish.

I meant the politically correct white guilt bullshit that allows something like the Michael Irvin situation to happen. Remember him saying that Tony Romo's great-grandmother must have snuck out to the barn and banged a black guy, solely because he's an athletic white guy? Did he get fired? NO. Do I think he should have? Not necessarily, but if he can say that then a white broadcaster should be able to say "Wow, Steve McNair is a smart quarterback. He's almost too smart. Someone in his family tree must have fucked her master." Tell me, what do you think would happen if a white guy did say that? What HAS happened to white broadcasters for far less?

I meant how if a white person commits a crime against a black, it's almost guaranteed it's going to be labelled a hate crime. But black on white crime? Not likely. That's almost expected ... accepted even. No hate crime there because we all know blacks can't be racist.

So there's my answer for now. I'll await the excuses, justifications and oh-so-predictable "when's the next Klan meeting" comments. But no, I won't care ... you're right about that part.

BTW, Holocaust? You seriously believe THAT crock of shit ever happened? [:D]



<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/motors/offend.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

[MARV]

Let's consider the fact that every song sold through iTunes is in the aac format:

[i]Jobs commented, "What we see is iTunes sales were really up this year. We doubled the number of songs we sold in 2006. We are selling over 5 million songs a day. Isn't that unbelievable? 58 songs every second."[/i]

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/technologies/aac/

http://www.mcelhearn.com/article.php?st ... 9095734850

<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/">[i]You on the guestlist?[/i]</a>

[eight6]

[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]


The whole reason I initially avoided the question? Take a look at the date of the thread and when I initially posted that - 2/14/07. Less than 6 hours later, you made a post of your own in the thread yet somehow either missed my statement entirely or didn't figure it was worth responding to at the time. UNTIL ... a month and a half goes by and someone else tries to call me on it. Then you jump in and try to BULLY [:D] me into explaining why I said it. At that point, I decided it would be much more fun to just fuck with everyone, as Blir has so eloquently opined.


[/quote]

Didn't notice that...fuck, that could be the premise for an episode of NWOCSI.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/dbince/086scan.gif" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

[MARV]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/31/ ... index.html

<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/">[i]You on the guestlist?[/i]</a>

[shovelbum]

[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/31/gingrich.bilingual.ap/index.html

<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/">[i]You on the guestlist?[/i]</a>
[/quote]

Marv, I'm glad you found that piece! I just forwarded it to my linguistics prof. It really proves why people named Newt should allow more intelligent people represent themselves to the Republican cause.

[;)]

As far as I know, Newt doesn't have any background or experience in this subject. If he was qualified wouldn't he be sure to let us know so that we'd accept his authority on the subject?

He makes a comment about people "randomly showing up to vote" as if it's some casual affair that a person might accidently wander into. Further in the article, it is stated that federal law requires districts with "large populations of non-English speakers" to print ballots in multiple languages- doesn't sound "random" to me!

When he states that citizenship requires pasing a test, he neglects to mention that many of us are natural born citizens. How does his philosophy cover people who are born here and taught to speak a different language? How does he propose we reach out to those children and TEACH them standard English?

"Bilingual programs teach students reading, arithmetic and other basic skills in their native language SO THEY DO NOT FALL BEHIND WHILE MASTERING ENGLISH."

Thanks, Marv, for sharing this article. So helpful.

Now, I've been spending too much time on this forum and not enough time with my music. . . so see y'all later!

"You can't stop the world for a boy or a girl
Sweet victims of poor circumstances
But you can pour back the love, sweeping down from above
Giving hope and making more chances. . . "

Simple Minds- Sanctify Yourself

PS What is UP with Robert Smith and this Simpson scandal??? I've been hurling all day over it!

[beatschool]

[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>LOL! Works for me. You can be as rude or as caustic as you want ... it's not like I'm out of my element in that arena. [8D]

The whole reason I initially avoided the question? Take a look at the date of the thread and when I initially posted that - 2/14/07. Less than 6 hours later, you made a post of your own in the thread yet somehow either missed my statement entirely or didn't figure it was worth responding to at the time. UNTIL ... a month and a half goes by and someone else tries to call me on it. Then you jump in and try to BULLY [:D] me into explaining why I said it. At that point, I decided it would be much more fun to just fuck with everyone, as Blir has so eloquently opined.[/quote]

There wasn't any kind of master plan on my part to team up with anyone else. I skimmed over the initial post you had made and missed it, then went to Santa Cruz for a week and didn't spend much time on NWO. I've argued many points when I was the only one speaking out. Step away from the conspiracy theory.

[quote]As for my reasons ... I said that today white people are primarily the victims of racism. I so believe that. Sometime in the not so recent past, things have over-corrected.

I meant affirmative action, which has already been covered ad nauseum.[/quote]

I have no allegiance to affirmative action programs. I believe in earning one's place in life. That doesn't mean that I excuse employers/organizations that only look for a certain type of candidate to the exclusion of all others. When I worked at NAMM in Carlsbad, CA, we had fifty employees, and not a single one, other than me, was anything but white. No latinos, no asians, no blacks. For a company based in San Diego, not having a single Spanish-speaking person was a bit curious. It also didn't help that the CEO would get drunk at off-site office events and would berate the latinos working in the restaurants by yelling bigoted comments at them. Lastly, for an international trade organization (NAMM stands for, oddly, the International Music Products Association), to not have a diverse staff was retarded in that we dealt with folks from all over the world, especially Latin American countries and Asian countries. To top it off, they had Tom Metzger's son working for the company for a short time before I arrived.

[quote]The fucking whining about their not being enough black head coaches in pro sports.[/quote]

I think adding black coaches just for the sake of adding black coaches is stupid, but the sports entertainment industry has traditionally been a very closed incestuous network. It wouldn't hurt for them to interview non-white candidates.

[quote]I meant shit like BET.[/quote]

I hope you have the same problem with Univision, Telemundo, Filipino channels, European channels, etc. It is called marketing towards a certain culture and towards a targeted demographic. If that's the case, sites oriented towards individual musical genres, let's say New Wave, should also bother you. BET exists not as a public service. It is there to make money.

[quote]I meant the ridiculous double standard that makes it Ok for black comedians to slam white people, but god forbid a white person try to do the same to blacks. Unless it's Sarah Silverman, who probably gets a pass for being Jewish.[/quote]

You completely disregard the fact that most race-based comedians spend most of their time mocking their own people. Ever heard of Richard Pryor? Watch Def Comedy Jam once or twice. Most comedians refer to broad stereotypes when making jokes. White guilt keeps a lot of comedians and their audiences from broaching those subjects. Off the top of my head, white comedians that aren't scared of race include George Carlin and Robin Williams. I'd be happy to do some more research for you.

[quote]I meant the politically correct white guilt bullshit that allows something like the Michael Irvin situation to happen. Remember him saying that Tony Romo's great-grandmother must have snuck out to the barn and banged a black guy, solely because he's an athletic white guy? Did he get fired? NO. Do I think he should have? Not necessarily, but if he can say that then a white broadcaster should be able to say "Wow, Steve McNair is a smart quarterback. He's almost too smart. Someone in his family tree must have fucked her master." Tell me, what do you think would happen if a white guy did say that? What HAS happened to white broadcasters for far less?[/quote]

Micheal Irvin is a piece of shit that deserves exactly the same punishment as Rush Limbaugh. Blame the white suits at ESPN for not canning him. I don't think it is black people making the decision to keep Irvin on the air.

I think with white broadcasters you have to add the history of US race relations into the equation. There is a far greater fear of white racism towards others because it actually happened (and still does). That colors (excuse the pun) the perception of comments. Does that make it right? No, but it is part of the learning process. I think we're seeing some cases of language being held against black celebrities. Two cases right now are Tim Hardaway's comments about gays and Micheal Ray Richardson's comments re: Jews. They are both taking a beating for their words and in Tim's case, lost their position.

[quote]I meant how if a white person commits a crime against a black, it's almost guaranteed it's going to be labelled a hate crime. [/quote]

There is nothing true about this statement. If a crime is going to be charged as a hate crime, evidence has to be able to prove the race or sexual orientation were part of the motivation for the accused. The prosecution can't just look at the skin colors of the parties involved and decide it is a hate crime.

[quote]But black on white crime? Not likely. That's almost expected ... accepted even. No hate crime there because we all know blacks can't be racist.[/quote]

Anyone that thinks blacks can't be racist (and I know you don't), is an idiot. Black on white crime is largely based on class distinction, not race. Whites are much higher up the income and class chain than blacks and latinos. Disparity in wealth is what creates these crimes. I'm not saying no black man ever chose to beat down a white man for fun, I'm just saying that is extremely rare. It is usually over material goods. Try being a black kid in a poor neighborhood walking around with an iPod. Odds are you won't be listening for long. It ain't about race.

Additionally, I think race does play a factor in preventing crimes. The gang members in my neighborhood (ironically named the "Whitees") hold nothing back when going after other black folks because they know that black-on-black crime is far less likely to result in police intervention and follow-up. On the other hand, these dildos give me a wide berth when I talk back and get into arguments with them. They know that the cops are far more serious when it can be perceived a race-based. These kids are dildos but they aren't stupid. They've figured out the way to be dildos and still come up against the least possible interference.

[quote]So there's my answer for now. I'll await the excuses, justifications and oh-so-predictable "when's the next Klan meeting" comments. But no, I won't care ... you're right about that part.[/quote]

If you're feeling that way, look at yourself. I'm not claiming you're in the Klan or a Nazi. You're the kind of guy that likes making loud statements so you can get a reaction. I already know that about you.

[quote]BTW, Holocaust? You seriously believe THAT crock of shit ever happened? [:D][/quote]

Why do you hate the Jews, Klanboy?