I don't know about the rest of the country, but I live near Marv and in NY, it is pretty sad. The russians and the Chinese (and others) come here not knowing English. They learn it quickly in order to do better. Their kids are taught english. They go to school and then get jobs and better themselves. But the spanish people (I married one) do not learn english and never better their situation. For generations they do this. Mostly the mexicans in NY. In America everyone can better themselves but they must learn english.
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Most Divisive Issue?
by phillyidol » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:29 am
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by marie3 » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:22 am
Right Philly. Here in New York you are given every opportunity to learn English.
The schools here on Long Island bend over backwards for ESL children. The schools actually offer all kinds of help for just about any learning disability. It looks as though the help you get depends on where you live in the country.
But it isn't the schools responsibility to teach English to the children. Many times I hear the parents only speaking to their children in their native languages, though they themselves speak English. This is always the case with my next door neighbors. One side speaks Italian and the other Korean. I never hear them speak English to their children.
The schools here on Long Island bend over backwards for ESL children. The schools actually offer all kinds of help for just about any learning disability. It looks as though the help you get depends on where you live in the country.
But it isn't the schools responsibility to teach English to the children. Many times I hear the parents only speaking to their children in their native languages, though they themselves speak English. This is always the case with my next door neighbors. One side speaks Italian and the other Korean. I never hear them speak English to their children.
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by MARV » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:46 am
Geez, what a waste of a post, Shovelbum.
[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
<br>Marv, I'm glad you found that piece! I just forwarded it to my linguistics prof. It really proves why people named Newt should allow more intelligent people represent themselves to the Republican cause.[/quote]
Bah. That's lame and you know it. Since when do you have to be an expert in a field to make it a political talking point? And I wouldn't underestimate his intelligence - I'm sure he spent thousands on his college degree.
[quote]He makes a comment about people "randomly showing up to vote" as if it's some casual affair that a person might accidently wander into.....[/quote]
Couldn't you give a little leeway in terms of "figures of speech"? If you consider the voter turnout of the last election year for example, you can see why most people would "get it":
http://elections.gmu.edu/Voter_Turnout_2006.htm
[quote]When he states that citizenship requires pasing a test, he neglects to mention that many of us are natural born citizens. How does his philosophy cover people who are born here and taught to speak a different language? How does he propose we reach out to those children and TEACH them standard English?[/quote]
Maybe because he, like most, don't expect to cater to a demographic that already gets more than it's share of handouts? Maybe because there is a reasonable expectation that people BORN in a country will SPEAK THE LANGUAGE of the country? People have to want to help themselves. Spending more money to spoonfeed those who have no interest in bettering themselves is a sham and you know it. I don't think the Gullah people fit into the same category as people from other countries.
[quote]"Bilingual programs teach students reading, arithmetic and other basic skills in their native language SO THEY DO NOT FALL BEHIND WHILE MASTERING ENGLISH."[/quote]
Bi-lingual. Two languages. English and a foreign one. I don't think the programs were designed for multiple dialects of English here in the U.S.
edit: I dunno about all this.....it seems that the Gullah are doing their best to fight off integration. And they wonder why they can't speak Engish? Honestly, it seems that many of them DO speak Engish and do go to mainland U.S.A. Leave 'em be I say, preserved heritage culture and all.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gullah
Heh, I give you credit though, for knowing a thing or two about music. From time to time, we get some clowns here who don't.
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[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
<br>Marv, I'm glad you found that piece! I just forwarded it to my linguistics prof. It really proves why people named Newt should allow more intelligent people represent themselves to the Republican cause.[/quote]
Bah. That's lame and you know it. Since when do you have to be an expert in a field to make it a political talking point? And I wouldn't underestimate his intelligence - I'm sure he spent thousands on his college degree.
[quote]He makes a comment about people "randomly showing up to vote" as if it's some casual affair that a person might accidently wander into.....[/quote]
Couldn't you give a little leeway in terms of "figures of speech"? If you consider the voter turnout of the last election year for example, you can see why most people would "get it":
http://elections.gmu.edu/Voter_Turnout_2006.htm
[quote]When he states that citizenship requires pasing a test, he neglects to mention that many of us are natural born citizens. How does his philosophy cover people who are born here and taught to speak a different language? How does he propose we reach out to those children and TEACH them standard English?[/quote]
Maybe because he, like most, don't expect to cater to a demographic that already gets more than it's share of handouts? Maybe because there is a reasonable expectation that people BORN in a country will SPEAK THE LANGUAGE of the country? People have to want to help themselves. Spending more money to spoonfeed those who have no interest in bettering themselves is a sham and you know it. I don't think the Gullah people fit into the same category as people from other countries.
[quote]"Bilingual programs teach students reading, arithmetic and other basic skills in their native language SO THEY DO NOT FALL BEHIND WHILE MASTERING ENGLISH."[/quote]
Bi-lingual. Two languages. English and a foreign one. I don't think the programs were designed for multiple dialects of English here in the U.S.
edit: I dunno about all this.....it seems that the Gullah are doing their best to fight off integration. And they wonder why they can't speak Engish? Honestly, it seems that many of them DO speak Engish and do go to mainland U.S.A. Leave 'em be I say, preserved heritage culture and all.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gullah
Heh, I give you credit though, for knowing a thing or two about music. From time to time, we get some clowns here who don't.
<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/">[i]You on the guestlist?[/i]</a>
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by shovelbum » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:08 am
[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
[quote]"Bilingual programs teach students reading, arithmetic and other basic skills in their native language SO THEY DO NOT FALL BEHIND WHILE MASTERING ENGLISH."[/quote]
Bi-lingual. Two languages. English and a foreign one. I don't think the programs were designed for multiple dialects of English here in the U.S.
<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/">[i]You on the guestlist?[/i]</a>
[/quote]
Marv, you just insist on not hearing what I'm saying: no it's not fair that we have to help these kids- their parents SHOULD be helping them. But they don't. And if WE don't, then those kids will grow up to be just like their parents and have kids of their own. It sucks, but you only have two choices: do something about it (cuz the parents aren't going to) or stop yer bitchin. Really, it's silly to tell children to help themselves on a matter of this scale.
If you look up African American Vernacular, you'll see that it actually IS considered a different language by linguistic standards. However, there is some common word use (you probably know that English is based on a lot of German words, so there is nothing new there). If our programs can help bridge a gap for kids who speak a COMPLETELY different language, then why can't they help kids that speak a similar one? Sounds easier to me!
Oh, and didn't you find it interesting in the article where Newt mixed up the terms "bilingual" and "foreign languages"? ("He said bilingualism poses "long-term dangers to the fabric of our nation" and that "allowing bilingualism to continue to grow is very dangerous.") Well, if he meant that, then I'd better quit my German course! But we all know he didn't mean that, which makes it pretty sad that a person speaking on behalf of language can't even seem to figure out what all the words mean. Call it nitpicking, but it's a little embarrassing to me!
Honestly, I think it would be a boon to all Americans if we could all be bilingual (speak our own language plus another one). It would certainly help us out in the global community and bring us up to speed with most other foreign countries where the citizens already know English pretty darned well.
As for a political talking point- I don't think that was his intention. And if it is, it's sure going to kill some votes for him.
About his "figure of speech": it has been made blatantly clear in recent media examples that figures of speech can be very dangerous for a politician.
But I thank you for your interest. You're keeping me on my toes. However, I think we've beat this issue dead. Isn't there something else we can bicker about? [;)]
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father, prepare to die.
[quote]"Bilingual programs teach students reading, arithmetic and other basic skills in their native language SO THEY DO NOT FALL BEHIND WHILE MASTERING ENGLISH."[/quote]
Bi-lingual. Two languages. English and a foreign one. I don't think the programs were designed for multiple dialects of English here in the U.S.
<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/">[i]You on the guestlist?[/i]</a>
[/quote]
Marv, you just insist on not hearing what I'm saying: no it's not fair that we have to help these kids- their parents SHOULD be helping them. But they don't. And if WE don't, then those kids will grow up to be just like their parents and have kids of their own. It sucks, but you only have two choices: do something about it (cuz the parents aren't going to) or stop yer bitchin. Really, it's silly to tell children to help themselves on a matter of this scale.
If you look up African American Vernacular, you'll see that it actually IS considered a different language by linguistic standards. However, there is some common word use (you probably know that English is based on a lot of German words, so there is nothing new there). If our programs can help bridge a gap for kids who speak a COMPLETELY different language, then why can't they help kids that speak a similar one? Sounds easier to me!
Oh, and didn't you find it interesting in the article where Newt mixed up the terms "bilingual" and "foreign languages"? ("He said bilingualism poses "long-term dangers to the fabric of our nation" and that "allowing bilingualism to continue to grow is very dangerous.") Well, if he meant that, then I'd better quit my German course! But we all know he didn't mean that, which makes it pretty sad that a person speaking on behalf of language can't even seem to figure out what all the words mean. Call it nitpicking, but it's a little embarrassing to me!
Honestly, I think it would be a boon to all Americans if we could all be bilingual (speak our own language plus another one). It would certainly help us out in the global community and bring us up to speed with most other foreign countries where the citizens already know English pretty darned well.
As for a political talking point- I don't think that was his intention. And if it is, it's sure going to kill some votes for him.
About his "figure of speech": it has been made blatantly clear in recent media examples that figures of speech can be very dangerous for a politician.
But I thank you for your interest. You're keeping me on my toes. However, I think we've beat this issue dead. Isn't there something else we can bicker about? [;)]
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father, prepare to die.
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by KYYX4ever » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:15 am
[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]If you look up African American Vernacular, you'll see that it actually IS considered a different language by linguistic standards.
[/quote]
well, technically, a different [i]dialect[/i]. Same language.[:)]
[/quote]
well, technically, a different [i]dialect[/i]. Same language.[:)]
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by MARV » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:22 am
[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
<br>But I thank you for your interest. You're keeping me on my toes.[/quote]
Hey, it's all in good fun [;)]
Anyway, I really don't think these people are in any real danger. By and large, they seem to speak regular English, have plenty of opportunity to come & go and those that are "stuck" there must really WANT to be there. From Wikipedia:
"Many Gullahs migrated to New York starting at the beginning of the 20th century, and these urban migrants have not lost their identity. Gullahs have their own neighborhood churches in Harlem, Brooklyn, and Queens, and typically send their children back to rural communities in South Carolina and Georgia during the summer months to be reared by grandparents, uncles and aunts. Gullah people living in New York also frequently return to the low country to retire. Second- and third-generation Gullahs from New York often maintain many of their traditional customs and sometimes still speak the Gullah language."
More:
http://www.utne.com/cgi-bin/udt/im.disp ... ry.id=2267
<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/">[i]You on the guestlist?[/i]</a>
<br>But I thank you for your interest. You're keeping me on my toes.[/quote]
Hey, it's all in good fun [;)]
Anyway, I really don't think these people are in any real danger. By and large, they seem to speak regular English, have plenty of opportunity to come & go and those that are "stuck" there must really WANT to be there. From Wikipedia:
"Many Gullahs migrated to New York starting at the beginning of the 20th century, and these urban migrants have not lost their identity. Gullahs have their own neighborhood churches in Harlem, Brooklyn, and Queens, and typically send their children back to rural communities in South Carolina and Georgia during the summer months to be reared by grandparents, uncles and aunts. Gullah people living in New York also frequently return to the low country to retire. Second- and third-generation Gullahs from New York often maintain many of their traditional customs and sometimes still speak the Gullah language."
More:
http://www.utne.com/cgi-bin/udt/im.disp ... ry.id=2267
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by shovelbum » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:30 am
[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>REAL divisive American issue: PC or MAC?
Me? I'm a Mac man, all the way [8D]
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[/quote]
Okay, ok, I have a pc but I must protest ignorance. Tell me why I should want a mac (without showing me an old dumpy guy and a young chipper guy in boxes). [:D]
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father, prepare to die.
<br>REAL divisive American issue: PC or MAC?
Me? I'm a Mac man, all the way [8D]
<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/">[i]You on the guestlist?[/i]</a>
[/quote]
Okay, ok, I have a pc but I must protest ignorance. Tell me why I should want a mac (without showing me an old dumpy guy and a young chipper guy in boxes). [:D]
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father, prepare to die.
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by MARV » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:34 am
http://www.apple.com/getamac/
You don't have to click on the clever ads...ok, gotta run out and get diapers for my little one.
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You don't have to click on the clever ads...ok, gotta run out and get diapers for my little one.
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by shovelbum » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:51 am
[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>http://www.apple.com/getamac/
You don't have to click on the clever ads...ok, gotta run out and get diapers for my little one.
<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/">[i]You on the guestlist?[/i]</a>
[/quote]
Hmmm. I guess I'd have to "sample" one to get the full picture- all the things they described as being "bad" on a regular pc just haven't been an issue for me. Yet.
After seeing the dumpy guy in the hospital gown, maybe it WOULD have been better if he'd been in the box. Goes back to that old axiom: be careful what you wish for. LOL
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father, prepare to die.
<br>http://www.apple.com/getamac/
You don't have to click on the clever ads...ok, gotta run out and get diapers for my little one.
<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/">[i]You on the guestlist?[/i]</a>
[/quote]
Hmmm. I guess I'd have to "sample" one to get the full picture- all the things they described as being "bad" on a regular pc just haven't been an issue for me. Yet.
After seeing the dumpy guy in the hospital gown, maybe it WOULD have been better if he'd been in the box. Goes back to that old axiom: be careful what you wish for. LOL
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father, prepare to die.
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by birdmadgirl » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:35 pm
[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>REAL divisive American issue: PC or MAC?
Me? I'm a Mac man, all the way [8D]
<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/">[i]You on the guestlist?[/i]</a>
[/quote]
Me, too.
Umm, well, Mac woman, that is. [:)]
<br>REAL divisive American issue: PC or MAC?
Me? I'm a Mac man, all the way [8D]
<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/">[i]You on the guestlist?[/i]</a>
[/quote]
Me, too.
Umm, well, Mac woman, that is. [:)]
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by beatschool » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:57 pm
[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>Details, Beatschool! DETAILS!
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[/quote]
Back in the late-90s I worked for NAMM, a music products trade association. We would put on the giant NAMM shows in LA and Nashville. One of our members was Apple Computers. They would display at the NAMM show. As an industry trend, we were beginning to see PCs grow in numbers in recording studios, both home and professional. I didn't like this trend at all.
Flash forward to Macworld SF 1998. My boss and I fly up to see the keynote. Jobs introduces the iMac. Mac geeks wet their pants. Pandemonium ensues. The boss and I are walking around the show floor after the keynote and head to the Apple booth. We see Jobs giving an interview. As he wraps up, I tell my boss I'm going to go talk to Jobs. Boss freaks out (huge Mac fanboy). I approach Mr. Jobs, let him know who I am and the organization I represent. I proceed to tell him what I've observed and state that Apple losing the creative market is a horrible thing. I talked about music in schools, music production, music on the Mac, etc. He listens, at the time I thought he was being thoughtful, but he looks right at me and says "Who are you? Fuck off!" and my boss shits himself. I was shocked but laughed. Jobs goes his way, I go mine, end of story. Not very interesting, but my ex-boss tries to credit me with Apple buying Logic and focusing on music. Of course he's full of shit, but if he wants to believe it, I can't stop him.
Coincidentally, the CEO of a company that I'm a shareholder in was the Jobs' family attorney before he came to us. He swears he's going to introduce us and let me tell Jobs the story. Sounds like fun.
<br>Details, Beatschool! DETAILS!
<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/">[i]You on the guestlist?[/i]</a>
[/quote]
Back in the late-90s I worked for NAMM, a music products trade association. We would put on the giant NAMM shows in LA and Nashville. One of our members was Apple Computers. They would display at the NAMM show. As an industry trend, we were beginning to see PCs grow in numbers in recording studios, both home and professional. I didn't like this trend at all.
Flash forward to Macworld SF 1998. My boss and I fly up to see the keynote. Jobs introduces the iMac. Mac geeks wet their pants. Pandemonium ensues. The boss and I are walking around the show floor after the keynote and head to the Apple booth. We see Jobs giving an interview. As he wraps up, I tell my boss I'm going to go talk to Jobs. Boss freaks out (huge Mac fanboy). I approach Mr. Jobs, let him know who I am and the organization I represent. I proceed to tell him what I've observed and state that Apple losing the creative market is a horrible thing. I talked about music in schools, music production, music on the Mac, etc. He listens, at the time I thought he was being thoughtful, but he looks right at me and says "Who are you? Fuck off!" and my boss shits himself. I was shocked but laughed. Jobs goes his way, I go mine, end of story. Not very interesting, but my ex-boss tries to credit me with Apple buying Logic and focusing on music. Of course he's full of shit, but if he wants to believe it, I can't stop him.
Coincidentally, the CEO of a company that I'm a shareholder in was the Jobs' family attorney before he came to us. He swears he's going to introduce us and let me tell Jobs the story. Sounds like fun.
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