Bush,Iraq and WW II

[randy]

Now Bush says the war in Iraq is equivelent to World War 2 ???!!!???
What a fuckin asswipe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[drsevrin]

In the sense that it's 1939, Iraq is Poland, and we're the Wehrmacht, I suppose I could see a vague similarity.

[SallyLightfoot]

16 months left in this administration. Please tell me your outrage is not a recent discovery.

I was just viewing a video of Bush today saying that we mustn't leave Iraq prematurely* as we did in Viet Nam**!!!!!!!

[Sound of one's head exploding]

I honestly believed the Bush admin was the most offensive concentration of political douchebaggery I've known in my life. My contempt is only rivaled only that for a democratic-controlled Congress which seems oblivious to its mandate to pull the government out of the ditch.

** Excerpt from the great documentary [b]The Fog of War[/b] regarding Vietnam:

"The former Foreign Minister of Vietnam, a wonderful man named Thach said to me (Sec'y Defense Robert McNamara)... 'Mr. McNamara, you must never have read a history book. If you'd had, you'd know we weren't pawns of the Chinese or the Russians. [i]McNamara, didn't you know that? Don't you understand that we have been fighting the Chinese for 1000 years? We were fighting for our independence. [b]And we would fight to the last man. And we were determined to do so. And no amount of bombing, no amount of U.S. pressure would ever have stopped us.[/b][/i]'"

[MikeP]

Does Bush actually expect that making grandiose comparisons like this are going to somehow puff up his legacy? 'Course there are still many who think that staying the course with the tide hopelessly turned against us is an admirable quality in leadership. Ugh![:(!]

[drsevrin]

Of course Iraq is nothing like WWII and is undoubtedly a major cockup and quagmire - just like the one the Brits experienced a century ago and just like Cheney said it would be back in 94 (thanks for the video, Marie3). But, honestly, what worries me even more is the apparently imminent war with Iran.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Former_CI ... _0821.html

Now there is serious talk of bringing back the draft. WTF is going on here? Why aren't the American people waking up? Can't we pull ourselves away from the latest news of Britney and Paris long enough to realize what's about to happen? Are we really willing to send our children off to die in an unnecessary war of choice with Iran - a country that hasn't attacked another nation in 100 years, and like Iraq, had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11? I understand what we are doing in Afghanistan, but wars in Iraq and Iran in no way serve the interests of the American people - in fact the opposite is true. I've completely lost hope in my government - Democrats included. They obviously answer to a greater power than the American people.

[SallyLightfoot]

I'm 100% with drsevrin on this one. I fear that this administration is going to keep escalating until the wheels fall off or it is impeached. [b]Limits?[/b] There are no limits to executive power-- the rest of the govt. and public only retains what scraps of power they can defend. [b]Rules?[/b] They make the rules-- conflicts/contradictions are subject to the executive branch's interpretation. [b]Reality?[/b] They manufacture it wholesale out of cloth-- while rejecting/discrediting opposing views and objective fact.

Today I read speculation that one reason for Karl Rove's departure is that he was on the losing side of the internal argument with Cheney over attacking Iran.

Iran is a convenient scapegoat for the administration's failed policy. If you heard Bush's disgraceful "Lessons of Vietnam" speech the other day, you'll recall that the other scapegoat is, of course, the liberal media and "cut-and-run" congressmen.

My sense is that if Iran doesn't bow down in submission to a US act of aggression, we'll see a major escalation of the war, political paralysis at home and postponement of the 2008 presidential elections. In this scenario, the price of oil would skyrocket, so it will be in our vital national interest to enact all kinds of emergency measures to protect our economy and eliminate internal and external threats.

Maybe 25% of the country would cheerlead these events. Another 30% would actually get of their @sses and protest, at least until they discover it is no longer a protected civil right. The rest of the country would wave the flag, tune into round 2 of shock & awe TV, and profess quiet disappointment that middle-eastern terrorists had to go spoil everything.

[edisonoside]

"War on Terror" Bush does not know what terror is...Privilege and Daddy made sure of that. W has no idea what it's like to be a soldier on the ground...What does he know about fighting in Vietnam?? Bush is probably the most shielded and protected man-child in the history of mankind. My one hope is that one day Him and his dad get to experience the true horrors of TERROR. Terror so powerful no secret bunker or school room would shield his precious skin[}:)]. We should dump their asses in Iraq.

[ben_at_work]

Yikes. too much liberal crap spewing in this thread. Will you bleeding heart Democrats ever stop whining.

Instead of trying to make an exact comparison to ww2 (the big one) why not look at how all these radical extremist spreading their terror are not just in their own homeland but throughout Europe and in the US. No, there is no Germay, or Hitler or Japan. Just a crapload of fucked up Terrorist bringing the war to us.

Thank God the U.S. and our allied troops weren't subjected to the liberal rants of crybaby democrats during WW2 (the big one) And it's a shame our troops have to hear it now.

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[marie3]

Why is it the first thing that comes out of someone's mouth when they don't agree with people who oppose the war is "liberal crap", "crybaby democrats", "liberal rants".
You don't have to be in any political party to see what's going on.

[drsevrin]

[quote][i]Originally posted by ben_at_work[/i]
<br>Yikes. too much liberal crap spewing in this thread. Will you bleeding heart Democrats ever stop whining.

Instead of trying to make an exact comparison to ww2 (the big one) why not look at how all these radical extremist spreading their terror are not just in their own homeland but throughout Europe and in the US. No, there is no Germay, or Hitler or Japan. Just a crapload of fucked up Terrorist bringing the war to us.

Thank God the U.S. and our allied troops weren't subjected to the liberal rants of crybaby democrats during WW2 (the big one) And it's a shame our troops have to hear it now.

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[/quote]

How's it goin' Ben? First, I'm no bleeding heart Democrat. My father was a WWII vet and career military man and if he were alive I can assure you he'd be opposing the war in Iraq with all his heart, as do many Republicans today. Don't misunderstand, at least from my perspective, the war in Afghanistan is totally different - there really were terrorists there and it made complete sense to go after them. There were no terrorists in Iraq until after we invaded. The war simply makes no sense. Pat Buchanan, a Republican, has called the Iraq war "the worst strategic debacle in American history".

And finally, the soldiers in Iraq today aren't just hearing this crap, they're saying it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/opini ... ref=slogin

[SallyLightfoot]

[quote][i]Originally posted by ben_at_work[/i]
why not look at how all these radical extremist spreading their terror are not just in their own homeland but throughout Europe and in the US. No, there is no Germay, or Hitler or Japan. Just a crapload of fucked up Terrorist bringing the war to us.
[/quote]

Right, the terrorists are lurking everywhere. Beware brown-skinned people who hate us for our freedoms. Seal the borders from illegals and terrorists.

It's a shame our troops have to hear anything except how noble and honorable this cause is. Every military conflict should be compared to the big one that we won 50 years ago (thank the Soviets, by the way, who took losses of 10 million troops in the effort to cripple the nazi army).

The proper message to send is that we will remain in Iraq indefinitely at 80+ deaths and 10+ Billion per month. While we cheer-on the grinding our troops to a pulp, let's also make sure we create as many new terrorists as possible. Let no once criticize this just war, for the sake of our troops, who have very delicate temperaments.

[NuWaveRx]

Ben, I hate to break the historical bubble surronding you, but both FDR and Truman WERE democrats.


To compare the conflict in Iraq to the Second World War shows a short-sightedness (intentional or not) concerning the sociologic, economic and military conditions surronding WWII of biblical proportions.

To me be biggest historical comparison to be made is that the national socialist goverment of Germany strongly encouraged (or codifed laws concerning) discrimination of anyone not of the aryan race (i.e. white, german-born citizens), decreed that dissent against the prevailing goverment was a crime punishable by imprisonment or death, that private citizens received fewer and fewer civil liberties, and were routinely subject to spying and evesdropping measures, and the ultimate goal of the regime was a single hegonomy in an large region (Fortress Europe).

Any of this ringing a bell today?[V]

[KYYX4ever]

WWII and today's war in Iraq are NOT alike (except for NuWaveRx's good point up there). If the administration were sincere in going after these so-called terrorists, they'd concentrate their resources, money, and power into actually surveilling, finding, and capturing them, one at a time. Not fighting senseless wars in Iraq or Iran, places that did not have "terrorists" until we invaded over there.

[edisonoside]

It seems like this country does not know how to produce good things any more. What happened? Even when it comes to wars we can't get it right! We don't even know how to target the right country! Incompetence runs in high places across the land. All this high-tech and no results.

[KYYX4ever]

[quote][i]Originally posted by edisonoside[/i]
<br>It seems like this country does not know how to produce good things any more. What happened? Even when it comes to wars we can't get it right! We don't even know how to target the right country! Incompetence runs in high places across the land. [b]All this high-tech and no results.[/b]
[/quote]
that's another thing I meant. We're supposed to be the most technologically advanced nation on earth, and we can't put our resources together to open a can of High-Tech WhoopAss on these bad guys ? The world today is so different, and our brave military (not to be confused with our cowardly, not-brave administration) is still in Cold War mode. This is a totally different war. We have to adapt if we really mean to eliminate the enemy. We need a completely different strategy, something involving high-tech fireworks. Not conventional warfare.

just my opinion, the armchair military strategist.