If you are going to commit.............

[eight6]

[quote][i]Originally posted by phillyidol[/i]
...and you one upped me with the highway.



Brooklyn USA
[/quote]

I knew you'd get the picture.

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Max Murdoc[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>No, Max ... I wouldn't care at all if someone read any of this and killed themselves. Not even the slightest bit. In fact I'll go you one further. If anyone reading this is considering suicide, please either shit or get off the pot. Quit whining and get to it. If you need any more tips, email me. I'll be happy to help.





[/quote]
A little bit cold but then again it is winter. Merry Christmas Mr. Kevorkian!


[/quote]

Wow, that's awesome. It's not every day I get compared to a great man like Dr. Kevorkian! Thanks and a happy 12/25 to you!

[NuWaveRx]

I've actually avoided posting on this subject. Unfortunately I get to see the results of several of the more, um, inventive methods described above in my ICU--especially at this time of year.

While I can understand a bit of the sentiment toward those who merely seek attention by talking about or attemptng suicide, I guess I cannot understand the lack of empathy toward those who are have major depressive disorder or bipolar disorder and do the same. And the problem is--unless you are trained to do so, it's often very hard to tell if someone is in the former camp or the latter. Are they just seeking attention? Just Whining? or are they truly ill? Which call do you make? And what will you feel if you "guess" wrong?

Here's the facts:
Major Depressive disorder has a lifetime incidence in the U.S of anywhere from 5-12%. The mortality associated with a suicide attempt is 10-15%. That rate is as high as several somatic diseases that no one questions the necessity of appropriate, prompt treatment. So why do we do so with mental disorders?

If someone talks to you about suicide, it may be a ploy for attention. However it is often a cry for help. With my friends and family I would tend to err on the latter end of the scale rather than telling them to "get their shit together and stop whining" Am I acting as an enabler in some cases? Perhaps. But I (and I suspect, anyone who has lost a close friend or family member to suicide) am willing to take that chance.

For the record, Hex, pill ingestion is the most common type of suicide attempt I see. I wouldn't advise it from either the perspective of the clinicians caring for the patient (after a severe OD we can often bring the patient back, but often with significant brain damage or other organ damage (e.g. in the case of acetaminophen liver damage) or the patient itself (Most patient simply don't have access to the "right" types or enough amounts of pills to "insure" death. Besides we have reversal agents for many drugs.)

Although I'm sure I've acted like a wet blanket to what I'm convinced was supposed to be a "light-hearted" thread. The subject matter can be far from it if it has touched your life. Please carry on--I'll get off my soapbox.

Merry Xmas.

[Max Murdoc]

I tried to think of something else to say but for the life of me I'm at a loss. So, if you want to shuffle off this mortal coil, contact some of the other posters here and they will help you with what seems like far too much enthusiasm.

[eight6]

Another thread causing angst among board members started by a Philippino. If it isn't a combative Colourfield thread, it's one about preferred suicide methods. What's with you guys?

Oh, I better add this [}:)], you guys tend to be overreactive. Maybe that's why the suicide thought popped into your head in the first place.

[hexicon]

I certainly didn't mean to offend any one here, but my point is that under some circumstances (e.g., NOT mental illness/depressive disorder), suicide is an entirely rational act.

I would never tell anyone else what to do under such circumstances, but were I faced with a terminal illness or similar condition (such as Parkinson's or ALS) and was looking at months of pain (or worse, drooling oblivion) in hospice or nursing home, I would off myself.

I'll just have to watch out for those reversal agents . . . or get myself to the Netherlands before I'm too feeble.

[hutter]

Hahaha, hardy har har.

To whom it concerns, FUCK YOU. Encouraging suicide, even in a joking matter, is repulsive. My entire family has been traumatized by my brothers suicide. It's not fodder for some lame-ass joke machine.

[hexicon]

[quote][i]Originally posted by NuWaveRx[/i]
<br> Which call do you make? And what will you feel if you "guess" wrong?

But I (and I suspect, anyone who has lost a close friend or family member to suicide) am willing to take that chance.

[/quote]

Some of us call 911 . . . over and over and over and over again. My friend was a Medicaid frequent flier, what my doctor friends call a GOMER (get out of my emergency room). Notwithstanding all the police visits and hospitalizations the county mental health professionals never thought she met the criteria for civil commitment (gravely disabled or a danger to oneself or others).

NewWaveRX, I realize as a medical professional you may have a different perspective, but how much is one human being supposed to do when he/she is constantly faced with another's threats and self-destructive behaviors? I could not stop my entire life to deal with her problems. For the last 15 years, she was a bottomless abyss of need. She could consume an infinite amount of time and money. But many years ago, I had to tell myself that I could not take responsibility for her actions.

It does not appear that my friend committed suicide in the technical sense--probably a larger than theraputic level of prescription drugs combined with her other physical problems, which in themselves could have been caused by years of drug abuse. But as far as I'm concerned, her death might as well have been suicide because it resulted from her self-destructive behavior.

How do I feel? I am devastated? Is there something more I could have done? Yes, of course. There would always have been one more thing I could have done, one more 911 call, one more bill I could have paid for her. I will never be entirely at peace with my behavior, because there's always one more thing I could have done. But I will not take responsibility for what she did.

[hexicon]

Hutter, I am sorry for your loss. As you can see from my post, I have recently suffered a loss myself. Also, as you can see from the previous posts, no one was making fun of your loss specifically.

I look forward to your showing a similar degree of sensitivity to other NWO members on issues that may be difficult for them as you have just requested that we show you on an issue that is difficult for you.

[eight6]

[quote][i]Originally posted by hexicon[/i]


I would never tell anyone else what to do under such circumstances, but were I faced with a terminal illness or similar condition (such as Parkinson's or ALS) and was looking at months of pain (or worse, drooling oblivion) in hospice or nursing home, I would off myself.


[/quote]

Agreed. I would never want to merely exist, especially if the purpose of that existence is to ease others moral or religious convictions.

[eight6]

[quote][i]Originally posted by hutter[/i]
<br>Hahaha, hardy har har.

To whom it concerns, FUCK YOU. Encouraging suicide, even in a joking matter, is repulsive. My entire family has been traumatized by my brothers suicide. It's not fodder for some lame-ass joke machine.
[/quote]

Wow, what a misread. It's like your the only one to have ever been dealt such a harsh blow. In light of some of your board contributions, one would think you'd be a bit more accepting of the different opinions always on display here, as well as the often acerbic brand of humor bandied about.

[NuWaveRx]

[quote][i]Originally posted by hexicon[/i]
<br>
How do I feel? I am devastated? Is there something more I could have done? Yes, of course. There would always have been one more thing I could have done, one more 911 call, one more bill I could have paid for her. I will never be entirely at peace with my behavior, because there's always one more thing I could have done. But I will not take responsibility for what she did.
[/quote]


Nor should you have to, Hex. I certainly don't pretend to know the whole story you describe, but from my vantage point it seems you did go above and beyond to help the person in question. Even physicians know that there is only so much you can do to help another person. At some point, especially with mental illness, you risk falling into the black hole along with the person you are trying to help (What did Nietzsche say? "When you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back at you.")

I am certainly not advocating such course of action. My only point is that, although our understanding of psychopathology is somewhat limited, patients with severe mental illness who have talked about or attempted suicide deserve a shot at treatment, even if the chances of success are less than perfect.

I completely agree with you and eight6 that (lucid) patients should always have the final say on how to end their lives. If I had a severe debilitating illness or an illness with little hope of a meaningful recovery. I would ask for what I call the George Carlin prescription: Morphine, Ice Cream, and TV.

Anyway, no offense taken here by any of the posts above--Just questions that don't seem to have any good answers.

[i_like_lectric_motors]

Maybe I shouldn't have offered my help after all. I mean, WTF? Only one taker so far? Hardly worth the trouble.

[tiger_mn]

[quote][i]Originally posted by eight6[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by hutter[/i]
<br>Hahaha, hardy har har.

To whom it concerns, FUCK YOU. Encouraging suicide, even in a joking matter, is repulsive. My entire family has been traumatized by my brothers suicide. It's not fodder for some lame-ass joke machine.
[/quote]

Wow, what a misread.

[/quote]

Probably read it while he was on the can, thinking of his next witty line.

[Spit]

[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>Maybe I shouldn't have offered my help after all. I mean, WTF? Only one taker so far? Hardly worth the trouble.



[/quote]
Sorry to hear you only had one taker motors but please keep us informed on your patient .