OKAY.....

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by birdmadgirl[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by WolverineSyr[/i]
<br>Oh God...it's going to be a long, long year isn't it?
[/quote]

Yup.
[/quote]

Definitely ... but hopefully not a long Four years afterwards.

[birdmadgirl]

[quote][i]Originally posted by marie3[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by birdmadgirl[/i]
<br>You know, she and all other women just can't win. If we show emotion, then we're hyper-sensitive, possibly PMS-ing, overly emotional crybabies. If we don't, we're frigid, stone-cold bitches. It fucking sucks most days to be a woman, and it must really suck to be under the microscope she's under.
[/quote]

Well put birdmadgirl.

I for one would love to see our president shed a tear for all the crap he has done to our country. God, that would finally show that he has some kind of brains in his head.

[/quote]

I'd love to see that, too. I'd love to know that he actually realizes the magnitude in which he has screwed up so many lives.

If he, or any other man, ever shed a tear, however, it would be seen in a completely different light. It would be seen as sincere, and I highly doubt he/they would get roasted and called EMO about it like a female would. When women cry, it's seen as weakness or as contrived, and the double standard makes me mad. Can't a person just have a damned moment and not have it blamed on anything at all?

[Bitter Almonds]

[quote][i]Originally posted by birdmadgirl[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by marie3[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by birdmadgirl[/i]
<br>You know, she and all other women just can't win. If we show emotion, then we're hyper-sensitive, possibly PMS-ing, overly emotional crybabies. If we don't, we're frigid, stone-cold bitches. It fucking sucks most days to be a woman, and it must really suck to be under the microscope she's under.
[/quote]

Well put birdmadgirl.

I for one would love to see our president shed a tear for all the crap he has done to our country. God, that would finally show that he has some kind of brains in his head.

[/quote]

I'd love to see that, too. I'd love to know that he actually realizes the magnitude in which he has screwed up so many lives.

If he, or any other man, ever shed a tear, however, it would be seen in a completely different light. It would be seen as sincere, and I highly doubt he/they would get roasted and called EMO about it like a female would. When women cry, it's seen as weakness or as contrived, and the double standard makes me mad. Can't a person just have a damned moment and not have it blamed on anything at all?

[/quote]

<p align="justify">Oh, god. Here come the waterworks[}:)]

[birdmadgirl]

[quote][i]Originally posted by XXX[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by birdmadgirl[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by marie3[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by birdmadgirl[/i]
<br>You know, she and all other women just can't win. If we show emotion, then we're hyper-sensitive, possibly PMS-ing, overly emotional crybabies. If we don't, we're frigid, stone-cold bitches. It fucking sucks most days to be a woman, and it must really suck to be under the microscope she's under.
[/quote]

Well put birdmadgirl.

I for one would love to see our president shed a tear for all the crap he has done to our country. God, that would finally show that he has some kind of brains in his head.

[/quote]

I'd love to see that, too. I'd love to know that he actually realizes the magnitude in which he has screwed up so many lives.

If he, or any other man, ever shed a tear, however, it would be seen in a completely different light. It would be seen as sincere, and I highly doubt he/they would get roasted and called EMO about it like a female would. When women cry, it's seen as weakness or as contrived, and the double standard makes me mad. Can't a person just have a damned moment and not have it blamed on anything at all?

[/quote]

<p align="justify">Oh, god. Here come the waterworks[}:)]
[/quote]

Not a chance. [:)]

[KYYX4ever]

[quote][i]Originally posted by birdmadgirl[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by marie3[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by birdmadgirl[/i]
<br>You know, she and all other women just can't win. If we show emotion, then we're hyper-sensitive, possibly PMS-ing, overly emotional crybabies. If we don't, we're frigid, stone-cold bitches. It fucking sucks most days to be a woman, and it must really suck to be under the microscope she's under.
[/quote]

Well put birdmadgirl.

I for one would love to see our president shed a tear for all the crap he has done to our country. God, that would finally show that he has some kind of brains in his head.

[/quote]

I'd love to see that, too. I'd love to know that he actually realizes the magnitude in which he has screwed up so many lives.

If he, or any other man, ever shed a tear, however, it would be seen in a completely different light. It would be seen as sincere, and I highly doubt he/they would get roasted and called EMO about it like a female would. When women cry, it's seen as weakness or as contrived, and the double standard makes me mad. Can't a person just have a damned moment and not have it blamed on anything at all?

[/quote]
heck yeah,
there's a double standard. Personally, I see nothing wrong with a tear or two, whether it's a man or a woman. Good heavens, we're all human. Can you imagine life under the microscope. Imagine that any emotions would be intensified. I mean, if you were responsible for....well, for the ENTIRE UNITED STATES, you'd want to cry too. (except, obviously, this current Pres. )

[eight6]

[quote][i]Originally posted by birdmadgirl[/i]


If he, or any other man, ever shed a tear, however, it would be seen in a completely different light. It would be seen as sincere, and I highly doubt he/they would get roasted and called EMO about it like a female would.

[/quote]

You don't spend much time in locker rooms, do you?




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[Frau_Blucher]

Check your history and check your facts, ie. Ed Muskie:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 32,00.html

[MARV]

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[shovelbum]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... AR&sub=new

"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal." ~Robert Heinlein

[shovelbum]

http://fish.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/1 ... lary-away/

Ethics is gendered... Don't tell me that women should have to prove themselves in anything to achieve their rights. And don't you dare suggest that this is "just the way the world works, get used to it."

"We hold these truths to be self-evident..." It is an insult that women, by lack of a penis, should have to provide evidence of their right to equality.





"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal." ~Robert Heinlein

[MARV]

Thanks for the laughs 'bum. OK, now for something a little more serious:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... cnn-topics

[;)]

[Frau_Blucher]

[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
<br>Ethics is gendered... Don't tell me that women should have to prove themselves in anything to achieve their rights. And don't you dare suggest that this is "just the way the world works, get used to it."

"We hold these truths to be self-evident..." It is an insult that women, by lack of a penis, should have to provide evidence of their right to equality.
[/quote]
What is your point here? These are just isolated declarations of opinion that don't empirically support any particular point. Sure, the opinions may be partly true, but what is the specific relevance and impact to the issue at hand? There's an sense here of blanket accusation of men and "the establishment" in general for treating Hillary in some stereotypic manner. However, the most overt stereotype in this thread seems to be the idea that a pervasive group of "people" are treating women unfairly by de facto tagging them as over-sensitive if they show emotion and cold-hearted if they don't.

How do you know that that's truly the basis for the opposing opinions and incredulity? Look, Hillary is in her "workplace" as she's being observed and judged. She is seeking to attain a position of great leadership. In the workplace and especially among leaders, finding a balance of being compassionate and yet strong, visionary and charismatic are key requirements for success. Maybe, just MAYBE, she's one individual who just hasn't yet conveyed that balance to the majority of people? Good ideas and strong desire are dime a dozen. Being able to translate that into action and getting people to buy into that action is a rarer talent and far more challenging.

We're not going to just "get used to it" because some pundit says so. SHE is the one who has to prove herself and find a way to convey that strong but compassionate leadership. Some clichéd notions of perceived prejudices aren't going to push the first woman or black man into office. It's an unfruitful cop-out to just lay that blanket indictment out there. I'm sure Republicans would love to have you do nothing more than whine about it.

[shovelbum]

[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>Thanks for the laughs 'bum. OK, now for something a little more serious:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... cnn-topics

[;)]
[/quote]

You're right, Marv, politics IS about spin:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/17/weeki ... =2&_r=1&hp

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/19/opini ... ref=slogin

http://journals.aol.com/mdiv94/DoireMus ... icans/2763

Yes, Blir, these are "opinions."

"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal." ~Robert Heinlein

[shovelbum]

Trust me, Blir, I am doing a lot more than whining.

"Perceived" prejudices? No, they're real. Anyone ever ask you if you were going to put your kids in daycare during a job interview? Ever had a college counselor tell you that you're lucky because your wife has a good job so you should just go home and raise your kids? Ever had a car salesman show you the visor mirror of a car you were thinking of buying? Ever had a woman think that you were "asking for it" just because of how you were dressed, or that because of how you were dressed you got what you had coming to you? Ever realized that everytime you walk into a dark parking lot you're on guard? These experiences wouldn't occur if we didn't live in a misogynistic culture. It permeates our society so much that we're not even aware of it in most cases.

Was my post random and irrelevent to the forum topic? I don't think so. Imagine the knee jerk reaction of many voters out there based on the fact that Hillary is considered a powerful woman. George Bush cried, Ronald Reagan cried... no one accused them of being soft, or of doing it for effect. More to the point, my post was aimed as a measure of support (not that she needed it [;)]) to BMG. No one accused HER of being off-topic.

So if I cry foul here I'm sure I'll be accused of being manipulative, and if I say that I'm angry about the androcentrism surrounding this election then I'm sure I'll be accused of being a bra burning bitch.

Go figure.





"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal." ~Robert Heinlein

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
Ever had a woman think that you were "asking for it" just because of how you were dressed, or that because of how you were dressed you got what you had coming to you?

[/quote]

Quite a few times, actually.