Parents Pray for Healing as Son Dies from UTI

[SallyLightfoot]

"... a catheter would have saved the boy's life. If the condition had been dealt with earlier, a urologist could easily have removed the blockage and avoided the kidney damage that came with the repeated illnesses..."

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/teenager-f ... 5209990001
http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/scanner/a ... -Pray.aspx

Such a tragedy. What utter f***ing fools.

[i_like_lectric_motors]

This is one of the few times I can agree with the tired old bullshit cliche that "he's in a better place now". Poor kid never stood a chance.

[Bitter Almonds]

<p align="justify">I'm praying right now they both get ass cancer[}:)]

[eight6]

[quote][i]Originally posted by XXX[/i]
<br><p align="justify">I'm praying right now they both get ass cancer[}:)]
[/quote]

You fucking crack me up!

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z302/eight6pics/letmein7-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

[WLIRRIP]

I know of incidents where prayer has indeed affected positive change in people (my wife's eye is one example). But I do agree that you do not totally abandon medicine either.

As for wishing harm on the parents, that's nice bro. They didn't want their child to die. They did what they thought best. It was a bad choice on their parts, but they acted on what they felt was his best interests. I'm sure they're grieving in a way you never will for their son. They don't need any more pain in their lives.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people he chose for his inheritance.
Psalm 33:12

[Frau_Blucher]

[quote][i]Originally posted by WLIRRIP[/i]
<br> They did what they thought best. It was a bad choice on their parts, but they acted on what they felt was his best interests.
[/quote]
A judgmental person (not me of course!) might think they did what they thought was best based on their arrogance and conviction of infallibility in their interpretation of God. Some (again, don't know who, but [i]some[/i]) might be inclined to say they deserve scorn as much as those who would chose to announce their faith with a proclamation of exclusivism before all else, an unfortunate hallmark of all Abrahamaic religions including Christianity, Islam, and Judaism.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
Luke 14:11

[shovelbum]

Amen, Blir!

"There's safety in numbers when we learn to divide, how can we be in when there is no outside?" ~Peter Gabriel

[i_like_lectric_motors]

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v604/motors/?action=view¤t=e0bd66a1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/motors/e0bd66a1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

And yes, Blir ... I know I'm predictable. [:o)]

[Frau_Blucher]

[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>And yes, Blir ... I know I'm predictable. [:o)]
[/quote]
Nevertheless, for a split second there, I was waiting for the video to cue up. Doh! [B)][:o)]

[WLIRRIP]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Blir[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by WLIRRIP[/i]
<br> They did what they thought best. It was a bad choice on their parts, but they acted on what they felt was his best interests.
[/quote]
A judgmental person (not me of course!) might think they did what they thought was best based on their arrogance and conviction of infallibility in their interpretation of God. Some (again, don't know who, but [i]some[/i]) might be inclined to say they deserve scorn as much as those who would chose to announce their faith with a proclamation of exclusivism before all else, an unfortunate hallmark of all Abrahamaic religions including Christianity, Islam, and Judaism.[/quote]

Cute, but your statement demonstrates a real lack of understanding of what's going on here.

It's called a belief system. Everyone has one. Why should they or any other religious person change their views to include your point of view? How can it be Divine revelation if mere humans can re-write it at will?

Perhaps you believe that that would be a better demonstration of tolerance on their part? That's actually intolerance on your part. They believe what they do. To my knowledge they never said that you wouldn't be welcome at their dinner table. You obviously DON'T believe you need a Savior. I hope and pray that you change that conviction, but I'm certainly not going to mock you because your belief system excludes me. I don't really care. I'm curious to know why you do.

You may answer "It's because their son died!" To that I'd say that you held this belief long before their son died, so that's not relevant here.

BTW, are your beliefs about the origin of the universe and of life just as "arrogant" and are you just as convicted of their infallibility? Or do you include and mix and mesh various religious traditions with these beliefs of yours?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people he chose for his inheritance.
Psalm 33:12

[Frau_Blucher]

[quote][i]Originally posted by WLIRRIP[/i]
<br>Why should they or any other religious person change their views to include your point of view?[/quote]
So that their child isn't ignorantly sacrificed? And I don't hold rational judgments of medical issues at hand to be uniquely "my" point of view.
[quote]<br>How can it be Divine revelation if mere humans can re-write it at will?[/quote]
Humans are flawed, especially in their unequivocal conceits about understanding divinity.
[quote]<br>Perhaps you believe that that would be a better demonstration of tolerance on their part?[/quote]
No, but rather of rudimentary cognitive skills.
[quote]<br>They believe what they do.[/quote]
Irrelevant. Hitler, Pol Pot, Kim Jong, Osama, Bush...all share this trait.
[quote]<br>You obviously DON'T believe you need a Savior.[/quote]
Massive presumption by someone who apparently can't believe that scorn of an extremist view doesn't automatically relegate one as a heathen.
[quote]<br>BTW, are your beliefs about the origin of the universe and of life just as "arrogant" and are you just as convicted of their infallibility?[/quote]
Absolutely not. I'm always questioning and don't presume I have the one true answer.
[quote]<br>Or do you include and mix and mesh various religious traditions with these beliefs of yours?[/quote]
News flash - it's all a mix and mesh. Always weird how some peoples' conceits lead them to presume what my beliefs are based on my lack of belief in their interpretations.

There! What'd I score? I'm thinking "Fiscally Conservative Religiously Center Social Liberal" - it's where I usually come in, oddly right in there with the likes of Joe Lieberman who is a massive cunt while I clearly am not!

[Bitter Almonds]

[quote][i]Originally posted by WLIRRIP[/i]
<br>I know of incidents where prayer has indeed affected positive change in people (my wife's eye is one example). But I do agree that you do not totally abandon medicine either.

As for wishing harm on the parents, that's nice bro. They didn't want their child to die. They did what they thought best. It was a bad choice on their parts, but they acted on what they felt was his best interests. I'm sure they're grieving in a way you never will for their son. They don't need any more pain in their lives.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people he chose for his inheritance.
Psalm 33:12
[/quote]

<p align="justify">What they need is to be spayed and neutered so something like this doesn't happen again. "Healing through prayer" is a bunch of poppycock baloney. It doesn't work. Try praying for someone who's lost a limb and see if they get it back. Wait and see when they don't get it back and then think to yourself: 1) God doesn't give a shit about amputees or 2) prayer doesn't work because praying to God to heal is retarded[}:)]

[WLIRRIP]

XXX... my wife's eye experienced an improvement during a healing service and under conditions where it usually gets worse. And it has been solid since. You may not witness these things. The liberal press certainly doesn't go out of its way to shine a light on them. But they do happen.

BLIR... you talk of their failing to use their intellect in their reaction to their son's ailment, but that's not the way you came off in your earlier post. Your criticism used the same language as people who do take the POV I errantly attributed to you. So you'll have to forgive me. You seem to have an anger towards them that is based on hatred for them rather than their misguided actions. And that seems anti-religionist to me. But if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

And while humans are flawed in regards to their understanding of God, they do have certain core beliefs that do not change unless they decide to abandon their faith. It is this that I objected to. I will not say that maybe Muhamed got this right and Jesus got this wrong, or that science says this, so the Bible in this regard is wrong. If I do that -- you may believe I'm abandoning my intellect and you can think that all you want -- but then I become the creator of a new god. And how can that be a god if I'm the one reinventing him? He's not an independent Entity, just a sculpture I'm working on.

We all need to make a decision about what we're going to believe is right and sane and sensible. If I'm wrong, then it will catch up to me (so far, in my nearly 31 years of being a Christian tho, it hasn't). If I'm right, then I have one heck of a gift to share with the rest of the world. Either way, when sick or injured, I will go to healing services AND doctors. That family was wrong and it caught up with them.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people he chose for his inheritance.
Psalm 33:12

[Bitter Almonds]

<p align="justify">No, healing due to prayer doesn't happen. That's a fact. It will never happen. Try praying for someone who has lost a limb and see if they grow another one. That'd be definitive proof that it works. Otherwise, random events aren't necessarily "miracles" that result from prayer.

Check this out:

1. God is infallible and knows everything: past, present, and future.
2. God created everything.
3. Since God created everything and knows everything, don't you think God already knew such-and-such person would suffer from cancer, gun shot, diabetes, amputation, starvation, etc?
4. Why would anyone pray to God to change his mind? Would you say God was incorrect in creating the events that led to people being afflicted by disease and suffering?
5. If you pray to God to heal, then that means you think God is incorrect. You want to change God's will.

You see, prayer is just a form of meditation/reflection. You don't pray for things. You pray to be thankful for everyone and everything that made it possible for every moment up to the present. You pray when you become aware of what you have. These stupid, sub-human imbeciles had every opportunity to make their child live and they did not choose any of it. Instead, they wanted God to do the work for them. Fuck that shit. Thus, prayer in order to heal is ludicrous and a total kick in the pants of God[}:)]

[WLIRRIP]

[quote][i]Originally posted by XXX[/i]
<br><p align="justify">No, healing due to prayer doesn't happen. That's a fact. It will never happen. Try praying for someone who has lost a limb and see if they grow another one. That'd be definitive proof that it works. Otherwise, random events aren't necessarily "miracles" that result from prayer.

Check this out:

1. God is infallible and knows everything: past, present, and future.
2. God created everything.
3. Since God created everything and knows everything, don't you think God already knew such-and-such person would suffer from cancer, gun shot, diabetes, amputation, starvation, etc?
4. Why would anyone pray to God to change his mind? Would you say God was incorrect in creating the events that led to people being afflicted by disease and suffering?
5. If you pray to God to heal, then that means you think God is incorrect. You want to change God's will.

You see, prayer is just a form of meditation/reflection. You don't pray for things. You pray to be thankful for everyone and everything that made it possible for every moment up to the present. You pray when you become aware of what you have. These stupid, sub-human imbeciles had every opportunity to make their child live and they did not choose any of it. Instead, they wanted God to do the work for them. Fuck that shit. Thus, prayer in order to heal is ludicrous and a total kick in the pants of God[}:)]
[/quote]

Well I guess you told me.

Of course God knows what will happen. But we don't, and He deals with us on that level. Just because something happens doesn't mean God wants it to -- it just means that He allowed it. Children get molested. People get robbed. These are the results of human free will -- something God doesn't interfere with. We will be accountable to Him because of our choices, but that doesn't make them God's preference for our lives.

There was an incident where Jesus pointed to a man who was crippled since birth (I believe that's how it goes). Jesus said he got this way so that God's power could be demonstrated in him. God wants you to pray for change. He tells us to pray for people, our enemies as well as friends, our leaders, for healing, etc. As for limbs reappearing, when I lose one and pray over it, I'll get back to you. But I could probably point you to a ton of people who've had all sorts of ailments healed, as well as many who have not. I think that more proves my point than yours.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people he chose for his inheritance.
Psalm 33:12