Gay Couples Rush to Get Married in California

[manekineko]

Oh, good grief. Let's not debate normal vs. abnormal in terms of human rights. Do we really believe that some people are more deserving of basic human rights than others? Human rights are human rights. We're too quick to label things that we don't agree with or that make us uncomfortable as "abnormal".

If you consider its persistence throughout history, homosexuality is quite "normal", considering that it persists despite the obstacle of not commonly being passed on through reproduction. Think about it--most gays don't reproduce, yet the predisposition for homosexuality is consistently 10% of the population. Sounds pretty normal to me. Let's let them get married already.

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[NuWaveRx]

[quote][i]Originally posted by XXX[/i]
<br><p align="justify">Your statement doesn't jibe in light of the fact race - as far as I know - is considered a "normal" trait whereas homosexuality is not. Therefore, de-segregation is normalising what is already normal whereas "gay marriage" is redefining societal norms to fit something abnormal. If we're gonna draw parallels to other things, then a simple analogy would be trying to pass a English class by writing essays in Spanish... thereby redefining English class to in order to fit those few who don't meet the requirements.
[/quote]


I'm sure the people who wanted segregation felt that being "white" was a normal trait relative to other races, too. It all boils down to the feeling of superiority the Majority can sometimes have (hence the notion of Tyranny of the Majority I mentioned before). Your analogy is a Non sequitur I'm afraid.

I'm taking a break from this thread. I fully realize that the odds of people on either side of this issue have about as much a chance of changing the other's mind as Paris Hilton has of winning an Academy Award.

I care about issues of seperation of religion and state because I have experienced first hand the oppression of a religious majority population on those who do not believe what they do. In the end it all comes down to prejudice and an unwillingness to let consenting adults who are harming no one live their lives.

I'm off to enjoy the 4th--I hope that everyone who can on this board does the same.

[WolverineSyr]

[quote][i]Originally posted by XXX[/i]
<br><p align="justify">Your statement doesn't jibe in light of the fact race - as far as I know - is considered a "normal" trait whereas homosexuality is not.
[/quote]

Normal - Abnormal? Give me a break. You forget that before giving others the right to vote that blacks were not seen as "normal" humans, but something less. The same argument was used then, just different language.

Who or what deems normalicy anyways? Politicians? Religion? Those are contructs and have no basis in biology. You know as well as I do that sexual diversity is as prevelant in zoology as it is in human behavior.

[phillyidol]

We shouldn't let the blacks or jews get married either.
Equal rights for all!
We went through this topic before and had the same outcome. 99% of us believe in equal rights for all. I would rather live next door to a gay couple than a racist couple or worse...holy rollers! In NY if someone gets in your personal business or tells you your way of life is wrong you will get punched in the face. I think before we worry about someones sexual preferences we should be passing stronger laws against criminals. Rapists getting 6 years in jail only to be let out to rape again. Murderers getting 5 years for taking a life. Drunk drivers that kill innocent families and walk away with a license. There are so many injustices in the world why bother with people that just want to get married? Let them be miserable like the rest of the married world.

Don't forget people that protest so strongly about gays are usually hiding their true feelings.(they want cock themselves)




Worlds GREATEST Photographer!

[Bitter Almonds]

[quote][i]Originally posted by NuWaveRx[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by XXX[/i]
<br><p align="justify">Your statement doesn't jibe in light of the fact race - as far as I know - is considered a "normal" trait whereas homosexuality is not. Therefore, de-segregation is normalising what is already normal whereas "gay marriage" is redefining societal norms to fit something abnormal. If we're gonna draw parallels to other things, then a simple analogy would be trying to pass a English class by writing essays in Spanish... thereby redefining English class to in order to fit those few who don't meet the requirements.
[/quote]


I'm sure the people who wanted segregation felt that being "white" was a normal trait relative to other races, too. It all boils down to the feeling of superiority the Majority can sometimes have (hence the notion of Tyranny of the Majority I mentioned before). Your analogy is a Non sequitur I'm afraid.

I'm taking a break from this thread. I fully realize that the odds of people on either side of this issue have about as much a chance of changing the other's mind as Paris Hilton has of winning an Academy Award.

I care about issues of seperation of religion and state because I have experienced first hand the oppression of a religious majority population on those who do not believe what they do. In the end it all comes down to prejudice and an unwillingness to let consenting adults who are harming no one live their lives.

I'm off to enjoy the 4th--I hope that everyone who can on this board does the same.

[/quote]

<p align="justify">I'm fully aware what is being discussed here is not for the purpose of "changing others' minds" about their convictions. My analogy fits in explaining what happened considering something like "ebonics" was proposed to be part of the school English language curriculum, but, like, you know? "Ebonics" is not English. It's the same with "gay marriage." It's also not acceptable for siblings to get married, or to marry inanimate objects, etc (and I'm referring to hypothetical consenting adults who could potentially pull a stunt like that if marriage was redefined further and further). I'm not even bringing up religion into this discussion (apropos of non sequitur statements). Every person already has the basic right to marry. A man has the basic right to marry a woman, and vice versa.

[birdmadgirl]

[quote][i]Originally posted by phillyidol[/i]
There are so many injustices in the world why bother with people that just want to get married? Let them be miserable like the rest of the married world.

Don't forget people that protest so strongly about gays are usually hiding their true feelings.(they want cock themselves)
[/quote]

LMAO! You kill me!

Seriously, I am amazed and appalled at people who think homosexuality is abnormal, deviant and/or a choice. Why do we even have to classify someone as homosexual or heterosexual? I see people as sexual, period, and if that means loving someone of the same sex, the opposite sex (or a little of both), then who gives a shit?! Why does it matter?

And before some joker tells me it threatens the very fabric of society, let me add that I am straight, married, white, middle class, 3 kids, raised in the Bible Belt--and the gays don't frighten me. I don't feel like my little world is threatened because someone is different from me.

You know what I worry about? I worry that my kids have not had health insurance in about five years. I worry about rising fuel and food costs. I worry about making it from payday to payday these days after being laid off a few months ago. I worry about things that directly affect me. What two consenting adults do with each other does not worry or concern me, and I honestly cannot understand why anyone else cares .

[Frau_Blucher]

[quote][i]Originally posted by birdmadgirl[/i]
<br>I see people as sexual, period, and if that means loving someone of the same sex, the opposite sex (or a little of both), then who gives a shit?!
[/quote]
LESBO!!!

[hexicon]

Go Philly!

Oh, and since according to some the purpose of marriage is to bear and raise children in the manner preferred by the state, why on earth are we allowing the legal marriage of the infertile, the impotent, and the post-menopausal? Let's reserve marriage for the breeders! Why should we get the legal benefits of the institution if we can't reproduce? If I'm not able to have kids, we certainly don't want the law allowing my husband to access my health care benefits!

P.S. As a lawyer, and not a particularly conservative one, I do have concerns about judicial activism, which happens on the left and on the right, and I have concerns about this opinion, though I admit haven't read it. (Unlike Brown and Loving, the different states' gay marriage rulings have generally been based on each individual state constitution rather than the federal constitution, so completely aside from "judicial activism" or lack thereof there may be a textual or historical basis for the different outcomes.)

As a policy outcome, I'm thrilled. It's nice to see some happy people in the news for a change.

P.P.S. "The will of the people"? Fuck the will of the people. Sometimes the will of the people does not fucking comport with the constitution. (Again, I haven't read the Cal case or Cal constitution.)

Initiative drafters can't draft for shit. In my state, initiative drafters deliberately fail to comply with our constitution's requirements so that they can score political points by railing against the court, the legislature, the establishment, and "judicial activisim" when the initiative inevitably gets overturned for flunking very elementary procedure requirements. The people should know better, or at least do their homework.

[KYYX4ever]

^ I know ! ^ Seeing how damn EXCITED some of those couple are to marry in CA is thrilling ! I mean, they are REALLLLLY happy.

Say, I was reading some article about this issue yesterday, and they were saying that since New Mexico does not specifically have any ban on gay marriage, that gay couples who marry in other states where it IS legal, would be considered legal here, too. Hm!

[WolverineSyr]

[quote][i]Originally posted by birdmadgirl[/i]
You know what I worry about? I worry that my kids have not had health insurance in about five years. I worry about rising fuel and food costs. I worry about making it from payday to payday these days after being laid off a few months ago. I worry about things that directly affect me. What two consenting adults do with each other does not worry or concern me, and I honestly cannot understand why anyone else cares .
[/quote]

Therein lies the real deal. I have always thought the big drama over gay marriage was a smokescreen to occupy the feeble minds of the Fox News set so they don't have to think of a real issue. Why ask questions when you have a cause to rally against?

What's going to destroy this apparently fragile moral fabric of society? Gay marriage or millions of bitter, desperate people out of work?

[KYYX4ever]

[quote][i]Originally posted by WolverineSyr[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by birdmadgirl[/i]
You know what I worry about? I worry that my kids have not had health insurance in about five years. I worry about rising fuel and food costs. I worry about making it from payday to payday these days after being laid off a few months ago. I worry about things that directly affect me. What two consenting adults do with each other does not worry or concern me, and I honestly cannot understand why anyone else cares .
[/quote]

Therein lies the real deal. I have always thought the big drama over gay marriage was a smokescreen to occupy the feeble minds of the Fox News set so they don't have to think of a real issue. Why ask questions when you have a cause to rally against?

What's going to destroy this apparently fragile moral fabric of society? Gay marriage or millions of bitter, desperate people out of work?
[/quote]

Totally in agreement. Faux News mindset indeed !

[shovelbum]

[quote][i]Originally posted by XXX[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by NuWaveRx[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by XXX[/i]
<br><p align="justify">Your statement doesn't jibe in light of the fact race - as far as I know - is considered a "normal" trait whereas homosexuality is not. Therefore, de-segregation is normalising what is already normal whereas "gay marriage" is redefining societal norms to fit something abnormal. If we're gonna draw parallels to other things, then a simple analogy would be trying to pass a English class by writing essays in Spanish... thereby redefining English class to in order to fit those few who don't meet the requirements.
[/quote]


I'm sure the people who wanted segregation felt that being "white" was a normal trait relative to other races, too. It all boils down to the feeling of superiority the Majority can sometimes have (hence the notion of Tyranny of the Majority I mentioned before). Your analogy is a Non sequitur I'm afraid.

I'm taking a break from this thread. I fully realize that the odds of people on either side of this issue have about as much a chance of changing the other's mind as Paris Hilton has of winning an Academy Award.

I care about issues of seperation of religion and state because I have experienced first hand the oppression of a religious majority population on those who do not believe what they do. In the end it all comes down to prejudice and an unwillingness to let consenting adults who are harming no one live their lives.

I'm off to enjoy the 4th--I hope that everyone who can on this board does the same.

[/quote]

<p align="justify">I'm fully aware what is being discussed here is not for the purpose of "changing others' minds" about their convictions. My analogy fits in explaining what happened considering something like "ebonics" was proposed to be part of the school English language curriculum, but, like, you know? "Ebonics" is not English. It's the same with "gay marriage." It's also not acceptable for siblings to get married, or to marry inanimate objects, etc (and I'm referring to hypothetical consenting adults who could potentially pull a stunt like that if marriage was redefined further and further). I'm not even bringing up religion into this discussion (apropos of non sequitur statements). Every person already has the basic right to marry. A man has the basic right to marry a woman, and vice versa.
[/quote]

The ebonics analogy is a fruitless endeavor for you. Actually, the purpose of using ebonics in public schools was not to encourage or perpetuate the language so much as it was meant to be a bridge to reach children who were so steeped in it (ebonics) that they had trouble understanding standard English. Statistically, the majority of children who were raised to speak ebonics struggled in school and inevitably ended up dropping out and perpetuating gang violence, poverty, domestic violence, etc. Ebonics was an effort to teach EDUCATORS how to communicate with these children so that proper English could be taught. However, the media twisted the language of the iniative and marketed it in a negative light that did not reflect it's true goals.

Sounds a lot like what fundamentalists/conservatives like to do with gay issues/initiatives (twist and market in a negative light).

"There's safety in numbers when we learn to divide, how can we be in when there is no outside?" ~Peter Gabriel

[Bitter Almonds]

<p align="justify">As a side not to what shovelbum stated: Having seen first-hand the deleterious effects of language-shift (e.g., "bilingual education") measures at schools in Los Angeles and Santa Ana, I'm right; nothing "fruitless" about what I said. It's just another sign of misguided altruism that backfired since those schools are still cranking out drop-outs and the lowest test scores in the state (not to mention gang violence and all those things it was supposed to have helped lower).

[shovelbum]

XXX, that hypothesis would hold nicely if the ebonics initiative had actually been orchestrated in an effective manner rather than the beaurocratical nightmare that was actually implemented.



"There's safety in numbers when we learn to divide, how can we be in when there is no outside?" ~Peter Gabriel

[CounterCircular]

[quote][i]Originally posted by phillyidol[/i]
<br>We shouldn't let the blacks or jews get married either.
Equal rights for all!
We went through this topic before and had the same outcome. 99% of us believe in equal rights for all. I would rather live next door to a gay couple than a racist couple or worse...holy rollers! In NY if someone gets in your personal business or tells you your way of life is wrong you will get punched in the face. I think before we worry about someones sexual preferences we should be passing stronger laws against criminals. Rapists getting 6 years in jail only to be let out to rape again. Murderers getting 5 years for taking a life. Drunk drivers that kill innocent families and walk away with a license. There are so many injustices in the world why bother with people that just want to get married? Let them be miserable like the rest of the married world.

Don't forget people that protest so strongly about gays are usually hiding their true feelings.(they want cock themselves)




Worlds GREATEST Photographer!
[/quote]

You got it right Philly............but.........do we want hetero or homocock??[:D]