The Rarest New Wave Single....Ever?

[arnoldtan]

thanks for this wonderful records........

[fiftypercent]

Some exciting news!

I have been contacted by Steve Roberts who played bass with the band members in an earlier incarnation in the early 80's.

Aside from being a top bloke, Steve is helping me find more archive material from the band and the early gigs performed under the name [b]Red Square Crowd[/b].

Best of all, he has sent me high quality rips from his mint condition single. [:D] I think you will agree they sound really good, definitely better than mine.

[b]Seeing Red - New vinyl rips at 224kbps[/b]
http://rapidshare.com/files/230438821/seeing_red.rar

That would make three or four known copies of the single right now.

http://mineforlife.blogspot.com

[Analoge Mechanik]

Hi!

Thanks for the new rip. It sounds good though there's a slight speed and pitch difference between the two 'versions'. Fifty, is your player one of those with a strobe so that you can know for sure the speed is 45 rpm exact? Or maybe Steve's rip should be more accurate in speed?

Sorry for being so picky, but knowing I will never be able to get in hold of an original, I'd love to have the most accurate rip of the real thing and exact speed is also a quality parameter to me.

Thanks a lot again for this!

[eight6]

Thanks for the new rip 50. I noticed the speed difference as well...I can adjust it back to 50's pace if he feels that his rips were at an accurate 45rpm.

[fiftypercent]

Well I'm no expert but I am using a GLI Pro SL-2100 turntable with a strobe and a pitch shifter. It's less than four months old, but it's possible my set up is wrong. I am happy to be schooled on how to check these things from the experts.

I thought I detected a slight change in speed/pitch from my version, but I think the new one sounds better, maybe more how I remembered it.

So, what do I need to do? (Apart from re-rip all the vinyl I've done recently[:0])

http://mineforlife.blogspot.com

[eight6]

[quote][i]Originally posted by fiftypercent[/i]
<br>Well I'm no expert but I am using a GLI Pro SL-2100 turntable with a strobe and a pitch shifter. It's less than four months old, but it's possible my set up is wrong. I am happy to be schooled on how to check these things from the experts.

I thought I detected a slight change in speed/pitch from my version, but I think the new one sounds better, maybe more how I remembered it.

So, what do I need to do? (Apart from re-rip all the vinyl I've done recently[:0])

http://mineforlife.blogspot.com
[/quote]

If you haven't changed your TT settings from when you ripped your Seeing Red 7", just verify that the strobe is showing an accurate 45 rpm. I can use the original rip as a basis to adjust the speed of newer rip.

New TTs are usually set 33/45 to be bang on from the factory, so if you haven't adjusted anything your recordings should all be OK.

[eight6]

Just playing with the 2 versions here, and there is about a 3% difference in speed. So now, if 50 checks his TT and it looks to be on, and can give a running time for the song off the label, we should be able to sort this out.

[fiftypercent]

You guys are the best. That's why I keep coming back here. I figured out how to use the strobe light (I had no idea that's what the dots on the platter were for) and it looks like my turntable is off, just not quite the way you would expect. At 33 1/3 RPM, I have to reduce the pitch by 2.2% from 0 to keep the dot centered. At 45 RPM, I have to reduce the pitch by 1.1% from 0. So, it looks like my recordings have been running marginally fast.

Of course I have been ripping like crazy for two months, without noticing anything wrong. Glad you guys asked me to check. Presumably, I can use Audacity or my DAK program to adjust the pitch a small amount without having to re-play the records.

So I guess that means Steve's rips are about 4% too fast.

That puts Ice at 4:32 and Weekahead at 3:11

[eight6]

[quote][i]Originally posted by fiftypercent[/i]
<br>You guys are the best. That's why I keep coming back here. I figured out how to use the strobe light (I had no idea that's what the dots on the platter were for) and it looks like my turntable is off, just not quite the way you would expect. At 33 1/3 RPM, I have to reduce the pitch by 2.2% from 0 to keep the dot centered. At 45 RPM, I have to reduce the pitch by 1.1% from 0. So, it looks like my recordings have been running marginally fast.

Of course I have been ripping like crazy for two months, without noticing anything wrong. Glad you guys asked me to check. Presumably, I can use Audacity or my DAK program to adjust the pitch a small amount without having to re-play the records.

So I guess that means Steve's rips are about 4% too fast.

That puts Ice at 4:32 and Weekahead at 3:11
[/quote]

That makes sense 50. If I slow down the new rip 4% I get a running time of 4:31.8, so I think we've solved that. I'll run a copy and post it later this evening. You should be able to adjust the speed of the stuff you've ripped without much trouble. If Audacity hasn't got that facility, let me know, I can get you a program that will do it.



If you could get a .wav file of the songs, we could do a little more work in the clean up area as well.



Here it is:

Sorry, converting mp3s to wav files then back again does nothing to enhance the quality of the sound.

**** Deleted as per request ****

Odd, my file shows a playing time of 4:32 in my software, but here it shows 4:27.

[Analoge Mechanik]

Hi again. Fifty I'm glad you found out about the strobe and helped to sort this out.

Just in case you want to adjust the zero points to where they belong, i.e. exact 45 or 33,3 when the pitch shifter is at 0, you should then adjust the speed separately with the help of the small screws 8one for each speed) on the bottom of your player. I assume it has them, at least it should. Check the manual.

It's quite common that many TTs are off the exact speed even when brand new. Some will upset with use, mainly the belt driven ones, which will be less accurate as the rubber belt wears, losing elasticity and tension.

[leutnant 030]

Hi everyone, Steve here
First off I'd like to thank fifty (if I may be so familiar) for the glowing introduction above. Obviously it was too good to last - my rips were soon found to be too fast! As I am fairly cloth eared after the sonic excesses of the late 70s and early 80s I didn't want to spend a fortune on a top end hi-fi so my stereo unit is an AIWA stack of budget separates, about 15 years old now and the turntable hasn't got a strobe. I never stopped to think that it wouldn't play records at the right speed, they always sounded ok to me.
Anyway, after seeing the thread I thought I would check it to at least confirm it for you guys and fished out a Stranglers 7" Nice 'n' Sleazy/Shut Up. The B-side is a short and sweet misogynistic rant, but is listed at 1 minute 6 seconds on the label, ideal for this test. The resulting WAV file came in at 1 minute 1 second. Now that seemed a bit too much of a variation, so I found the CD version, bundled as an extra track on the Black and White CD, which clocked in at 1 minute 4 seconds.
Using Magix audio cleaning lab you can lengthen the wav track and have it automatically adjust the pitch. Once I'd done that using a factor of 1.05, the vinyl rip amended to 1 min 4 secs sounded the same (to me!) as the CD version.
So based on this I can confirm that my Seeing Red rips WERE 4.6875% too fast (calculated using Stranglers rip 3secs too fast on a target 64secs) which agrees with your findings. At least now when I make some more 45rpm rips I can correct them! I guess I need to do a similar exercise to calibrate my 33.3 rpm rip adjustment.
Sorry and thanks guys for setting me on the right path.

[falck]

Hi everybody,

I guess some of you followed what this tiny piece of vinyl caused on the Minimal Wave board. [8D]

As an amusing sidenote, I recently got informed by another forum member that they have been offered the second (?) Seeing Red 7" by erubsco/obscure.

I have no idea if this is really true. It just put a smile on my face.

Ah, lest I forget: thanks again fiftypercent for sharing.

[eight6]

[quote][i]Originally posted by falck[/i]
<br>Hi everybody,

I guess some of you followed what this tiny piece of vinyl caused on the Minimal Wave board. [8D]

As an amusing sidenote, I recently got informed by another forum member that they have been offered the second (?) Seeing Red 7" by erubsco/obscure.

I have no idea if this is really true. It just put a smile on my face.

Ah, lest I forget: thanks again fiftypercent for sharing.
[/quote]


Hey Falck... good to see you here!

That's funny...can this guy get any more scummy?

[falck]

Well, now if it is true, there should be more than one person that has been mailed on principle.

But unless somebody who has actually received a message steps forward, it simply remains an amusing possibility.

Me, I stand by my statement that I'd buy a re-issue for Euro 7.- [:)]

[eight6]

I can assure you I have NOT received an e-mail. Surprise, surprise.