Hey Cambridge Police

[enzfan]

According to Obama you act stupidly. Way to measure your words inlight of prefacing that comment with saying he really didn't have all the facts in the case. I didn't know he had appointed Madame Cleo to a cabinet post.

[eight6]

[i]"Now, I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that."[/i] Of course you've already made the asinine assumption that race did play a role so any further input from you on the matter is useless; right Mr. Obama?

When will they cease to be labelled as 'rookie mistakes', and be properly described as 'dumbass utterings'?

[SallyLightfoot]

The police [i]did[/i] act stupidly. In dropping the charges, they admitted as much. I also think Obama was stupid to make a comment like that. He played right into the hands of those who want to take a non-issue and distract from his agenda. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

[i_like_lectric_motors]

It's hard to tell who's a more pathetic douche ... Obama or Gates.

The cops did nothing wrong:

http://wbztv.com/local/obama.comment.ca ... 97782.html

My favorite part:

"Sgt. James Crowley, who is a police academy expert on racial profiling, responded to Gates' home near Harvard University last week to investigate a report of a burglary and demanded Gates show him identification. Police say Gates at first refused and accused the officer of racism."

That tells you everything you need to know. Get all uppity wif da po-lice and yo ass be gettin' arrested. End of story.

[MARV]

I tend to respect and fully cooperate with those who have hand cuffs and the ability to put me in jail for the night. But that's just me.

<a href="http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/marvymarv/?action=view¤t=tick.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/marvymarv/tick.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[club80]

I agree with Marv.
Act 1 is polite cooperation.
If, after a few minutes, cooperation does not seem to clear up the misunderstanding, more persuasive discussion should be introduced.

We didn't sell a lot of records, but somehow we left an impression.
-Johnny Ramone-

[Frau_Blucher]

I guess the old punk days of saying "Fuck you pig, this is total bullshit" are over. [:(]

[SallyLightfoot]

I don't have any proof that this issue has anything to do with racial profiling (and Obama stated that). If anyone was doing racial profiling here, the passer-by was potentially profiling when she saw black men forcing open a door and assumed they were criminals. But even there we don't know that for certain.

As for Sgt. Crowley, of course he's going to describe events in the most favorable light to his case. If Crowley had sufficient grounds for the arrest, the charges should not have been dropped. Gates was angry and yelled at Sgt. Crowley, but insulting a police officer is not illegal, nor is asking for his name and badge number. When it was clear that the original report was false and that there was no threat or immediate danger, Crowley should have defused the situation or just left. He should have realized at that point that he was on Gates property without permission, and without probable cause.

If an office came to your house, entered your property and suggested that you broke into your own house, I think it's pretty understandable that you would be incensed. But then, once you show ID and establish that you are the owner of the house, and the officer is still doesn't leave? The matter should have ended right there. Instead the officer asserts official police control over you (i.e., seize you for questioning), and refuses to provide his name or badge number. And then he caps it off by arresting you on a trumped-up charge (disorderly conduct? WTF? Gates was on his private property and not a public disturbance).

When I was in High School, my brother and I were driving into town, in the process of making a turn when a police officer came careening around the corner in high-speed pursuit of some unknown suspect. He almost crashed into our car. We promptly slammed on the brakes, and so did the cop. The officer was furious with us for blocking his pursuit, and he was close to going berzerk. He was so angry that he issued us a ticket for failing to use our turn signal. This citation was TOTAL fabrication-- it was revenge, pure and simple, but because this cop was on the verge of snapping, we took the ticket and drove off. Just a personal example of police officers acting improperly because you've crossed the bounds of their perceived authority.

[club80]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Blir[/i]
<br>I guess the old punk days of saying "Fuck you pig, this is total bullshit" are over. [:(]
[/quote]

Absolutely. Not because we've gotten older. It's because we've gotten wiser. The ramifications of having a record becomes more meaningful once you have a family and it affects your livelihood.

We didn't sell a lot of records, but somehow we left an impression.
-Johnny Ramone-

[Spit]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Blir[/i]
<br>I guess the old punk days of saying "Fuck you pig, this is total bullshit" are over. [:(]
[/quote]
I remember those days. I recall a time when a cop cut in front of me with no directional on. I had to slam on the brakes .It pissed me off so without thinking I speed forward in the other lane then cut in front of his cruiser.Sure enough ,he now speed in front of me with his lights on. Before he gave me a ticket I gave him a earful of why he was wrong to cut me off.
Btw , I fought the ticket and won. [:D]

[SallyLightfoot]

[quote][i]Originally posted by club80[/i]<br>
Absolutely. Not because we've gotten older. It's because we've gotten wiser. The ramifications of having a record becomes more meaningful once you have a family and it affects your livelihood.
[/quote]
Bullshit to that. The whole idea of "go along to get along" is anathematic to individual liberty. Ditto the notion that an authority figure (police, mayor, congressperson, president) should be granted special deference due to their high office or power. Our revolution and constitution should have settled that matter. And while I don't think it's appropriate to verbally abuse a police officer, as citizens, we need to know our rights and assert them unapologetically.

Sometimes this means supporting people you dislike or disagree with (e.g. pick an ACLU case), because the fate of their rights and yours are the same. As an american citizen you should care a lot about things like habeas corpus, indefinite detention and torture. And while you may think terror suspects are scum (e.g., <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Padilla_(prisoner)" target="_new">José Padilla</a>), whatever the govt. or courts rules against their rights applies to the rights of all.

I don't think there's any shame in being arrested in defense of your rights. Individual freedoms erode over time or are stripped away when citizens who know better do nothing about it. In that context, saying "F*** you pig, this is total bullshit" is a more appropriate than avoiding confrontation. Standing up for [i]real[/i] inalienable rights becomes more meaningful when you have a family and it affects society as a whole.

[MARV]

[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>As for Sgt. Crowley, of course he's going to describe events in the most favorable light to his case.[/quote]

Same goes for Gates and in the absence of any evidence, all we have is their word. Until someone turns up a recording of the actual incident in progress, I'm going to conclude that this was an escalation of misunderstandings where cooler heads did not prevail.

[quote]If an office came to your house, entered your property and suggested that you broke into your own house, I think it's pretty understandable that you would be incensed.[/quote]

Me personally? Not really. I'd be happy to see the police doing their job and my neighbors watching my property. I like to think that I'm wise enough to know that perception and reality don't always intersect. If I'm suspected of a crime, no way would I provoke a cop. Falling on my sword in the overzealous pursuit of an obtusely applied ideology is just not in me. I'd rather try to pick my battles with the bigger picture in mind.

I remember a few years ago, I was locked out of my house. I climbed in through an open window. All I thought was how wrong this looked and how reasonable it would be for someone to call the cops. I remember thinking how I would have to maintain composure with anyone who questioned what I was doing. I know cops can be scumbags but they're not all like that just like not all black people want to pull the race card. It's hard to control people's perceptions but one thing we have absolute control of is ourselves so I say again (ideally), cooler heads should have prevailed.

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[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>

If an office came to your house, entered your property and suggested that you broke into your own house, I think it's pretty understandable that you would be incensed. But then, once you show ID and establish that you are the owner of the house, and the officer is still doesn't leave? The matter should have ended right there.


[/quote]


This is so wrong and demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the mentality a police officer needs to have in order to properly perform his duties to protect as well as to serve. An officer needs to be on alert at all times and it's his job to not leave the scene until he has determined that there is no threat to any person or property.


Yes, it was established Gates owned the house (but only after he initially refused to provide identification and started playing the "my race makes me a victim" card). But once home ownership had been established, does that in itself mean that everything is peachy keen hunky dory A-ok? Not necessarily. There are a variety of scenarios which would have merited further questioning. Just as an example, what if Gates had just OJ'ed his wife in the bedroom, went out to the garage for a tarp and accidentally locked himself out of the house, necessitating an attempted break-in? Any officer worth his salt would be questioning why someone would instantly come across as defensive if he had no reason to be defensive as that is a favorite trick of someone who is hiding something.

It's his job to be suspicious and it's in the best interests of the public ... a public which by the way includes pompous dickheads like Gates who think the rules don't apply to them ... that he is.

Think, Sally ... think.

[SallyLightfoot]

"Me personally? Not really. I'd be happy to see the police doing their job and my neighbors watching my property. I like to think that I'm wise enough to know that perception and reality don't always intersect. If I'm suspected of a crime, no way would I provoke a cop."

It's pretty easy to imagine being cool and collected through an experience like that, and feeling admiration for the police. But people can often be unpredictable, and circumstances can easily cloud your otherwise sunny disposition.

I don't think Gates acted in a respectable manner, and I'm not defending his ego or attitude. It is foolish to be disrespectful to an officer-- justice is served in a court of law, not in a clash in your front yard. My point is that, for all his behavior, Gates did not act unlawfully, while the officer did not have sufficient legal grounds to justify an arrest.

Also, while I'm anti-authoritarian, I don't have an ax to grind with the police in general. I'm against bad cops, not all cops. In the past few decades, power has accumulated with the state, leading to numerous accidental/mistaken civilian shootings, disregard for property rights, illegal searches and seizures, and illegitimate sting operations. I will thank police officers for protecting my home, but how they do that does concern me as a citizen and property owner.

[SallyLightfoot]

It is not illegal to do damage to your own property, such as breaking in your house or bashing in the door. Just because a police office comes to your house to investigate a complaint, it does not mean the officer has grounds to detain you for a round of questioning. The officer needs probable cause of a crime being committed. Gates explained what happened and that he is the owner of the house. If Crowley had a basis for questioning, I don't see it in the police report.

The fact that Gates was a pompous dickhead about playing the race card may make me dislike Gates, but it has no legal bearing on this matter. A police officer has procedure and protocol to follow. It doesn't matter one bit that Gates was a hothead-- his behavior was lawful and not suspicious. As a police officer, you cannot just say "This guy is a jerk, so I'm going to remain on his property without permission and question him." You need probable cause-- the belief that the person has committed a crime. See the 4th Amendment.