Hey Cambridge Police

[SallyLightfoot]

[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>Here's another good article by someone who gets it:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 97643.html
[/quote]LOL, I would never have guessed what Pat Buchanan's view might be on this. Are you aware that Buchanan is a white-supremacist with a lengthy history of racist statements and associations with neo-nazi and white nationalist groups? (Jeff Foxworthy imitation: If you read or follow Buchanan and never noticed anything wrong or uncomfortable, you might be a racist.)

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>Here's another good article by someone who gets it:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 97643.html
[/quote]LOL, I would never have guessed what Pat Buchanan's view might be on this. Are you aware that Buchanan is a white-supremacist with a lengthy history of racist statements and associations with neo-nazi and white nationalist groups? (Jeff Foxworthy imitation: If you read or follow Buchanan and never noticed anything wrong or uncomfortable, you might be a racist.)
[/quote]

LOL. Exaggerate much? Not that it would matter even if he was stating his opinion while wearing a Klan uniform and holding a burning cross ... the man's right and ultimately, that's all I care about. BTW, you can call me a racist all you want ... if disagreeing with you and lemmings like you makes me a racist, I don't consider it an insult in the slightest.

[SallyLightfoot]

You can keep your Patrick Buchanan article. I'll take Larry Flynt for the win: <a href="http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-07-30/grow-a-pair-obama/?cid=bsa:archive14" target="_newt">[b]Grow a Pair, Obama[/b]</a>

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>You can keep your Patrick Buchanan article. I'll take Larry Flynt for the win: <a href="http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-07-30/grow-a-pair-obama/?cid=bsa:archive14" target="_newt">[b]Grow a Pair, Obama[/b]</a>

[/quote]

I love Larry Flynt. The man's a true American hero.

[SallyLightfoot]

You like Larry Flynt and Pat Buchanan? My circuits are shorting...@#$!$#
Their views are like matter and anti-matter, and I'm intrigued by your ability to admire values in such contradiction.

Anyway, anyone who wants to evaluate Pat's <a href="http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2553" target="_abc">views</a> for him/herself can use the Google. Some non-scientific hints:

<a href="http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHNB_enUS325US325&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Pat+Buchanan+racist" target="_newg">Pat Buchanan + Racist</a> = 2.4 Million results
<a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1CHNB_enUS325US325&q=Pat+Buchanan+tolerant&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=" target="newx">Pat Buchanan + Tolerant</a> = 67,500 results

[eight6]

[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]

The charges against Gates were dropped because they are indefensible from a legal standpoint. They amount to false charges. So when I say Obama was not wrong in saying the Cambridge Police acted stupidly, I mean that Obama is correct based on the legal aspects of the case. Obama certainly could have been more even-handed in this and said that Gates acted stupidly as well, but that does not invalidate his statement about Crowley.

[/quote]

It does however draw suspicion as to his level of objectivity.

[quote]

Furthermore, Crowley failed to follow the law and police procedure and provide his badge number,[b] and his police report almost certainly contains deliberate false statements.[/b]

[/quote]

An assumption presented as fact...nice tactic. I'm sure Gates' statement was balls on accurate.

[quote]

I agree here. This is where Gates blew it, and it has nothing (AFAICT) to do with race.

[/quote]

Wasn't it Gates who implied the officer's actions were racially motivated?

[quote]

Sure, Gates just got home from a 19 hour flight from China and was probably jetlagged out of his mind, but had he given his ID and asked Crowley, "Am I free to go about my business now?" that would have forced Crowley's hand and ended it. For Crowley to answer in the negative would have meant that Gates was legally detained, and Crowley would have been way out on a limb.

[/quote]

You're right...that's what he should of done. Sadly, he decided to go with the uppity routine, making himself look less a man, and more a fool.

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>You like Larry Flynt and Pat Buchanan? My circuits are shorting...@#$!$#
Their views are like matter and anti-matter, and I'm intrigued by your ability to admire values in such contradiction.

Anyway, anyone who wants to evaluate Pat's <a href="http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2553" target="_abc">views</a> for him/herself can use the Google. Some non-scientific hints:

<a href="http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHNB_enUS325US325&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Pat+Buchanan+racist" target="_newg">Pat Buchanan + Racist</a> = 2.4 Million results
<a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1CHNB_enUS325US325&q=Pat+Buchanan+tolerant&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=" target="newx">Pat Buchanan + Tolerant</a> = 67,500 results
[/quote]

Well ... you see Sally, that would be because the words "racist" and "tolerant" are not polar opposites. But you already know that.

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>You like Larry Flynt and Pat Buchanan? My circuits are shorting...@#$!$#
Their views are like matter and anti-matter, and I'm intrigued by your ability to admire values in such contradiction.

[/quote]

Yes, I like both of them. I admire Flynt for his courage and for being a champion for free speech and Buchanan for a lot of his views. That doesn't mean I agree with him all the time ... I don't agree with anyone all of the time. That person doesn't exist ... although eight6 seems to be closest. [:D]

[MARV]

The reality is that belligerence is rarely accompanied by impunity. Jumping to legal talking points after the fact obfuscates Gates' original needling of the officer. This is what rubs most people the wrong way. Thinking people know that this undermines all of what the black community at large wishes to achieve.

And then there's the subtext of the very old gripe of whitey trying to take the brother-man down. If that's so, why make it easier for him? Gates should have sucked it up and used the legal machine to take his grievances to a higher authority. He blew it big time and Barry should have distanced himself from him. Like many others, I'm shocked that this went to the level of the president.

<a href="http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/marvymarv/?action=view¤t=tick.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/marvymarv/tick.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[MARV]

[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>You like Larry Flynt and Pat Buchanan? My circuits are shorting...@#$!$#
Their views are like matter and anti-matter, and I'm intrigued by your ability to admire values in such contradiction.

[/quote]

Yes, I like both of them. I admire Flynt for his courage and for being a champion for free speech and Buchanan for a lot of his views. That doesn't mean I agree with him all the time ... I don't agree with anyone all of the time. That person doesn't exist ... although eight6 seems to be closest. [:D]

[/quote]

Wow, a real person. Not some one-dimensional, predictable, cartoon character of a stereotype. I'll pass on the Kool-Aid myself.....

edit: I'll never be able to grasp why some people refuse to believe that something can be learned from everybody.

<a href="http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/marvymarv/?action=view¤t=tick.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/marvymarv/tick.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[SallyLightfoot]

To recap my position, cuz it's been a long thread, and I've read quite a few points which are not in conflict with my position:

1. Obama should not have poked his nose in a local police matter.
2. There is no significant evidence for Gates assertion that Crowley acted in a racist or discriminatory manner.
3. Gates speech was belligerent-- raving even, but this is lawful. Although verbally abusive, Gates was no threat or danger to the officers, neighbors or passers-by.
4. What remains is a routine matter of law enforcement. Crowley was lawfully there to investigate a possible B&E. Was probable cause established? [i]No.[/i] Crowley should have GTFO and left Gates to wrestle the demons in his head. Instead we have a controversial arrest.
5. From a legal standpoint, Crowley was wrong to arrest Gates. The wrongful arrest doesn't make him a racist, though. It means he made an error in judgment. The DA wouldn't go near that charge.

eight6, with regard to Crowley's police report, there are 9-1-1 tapes and the dispatch tapes which were made public. In the tapes there is no mention of "black men with backpacks" which are in Crowley's report. Crowley's report also asserts that the caller ID'd Gates race, but the witness he attributed that statement to (Whalen) has denied telling Crowley that. Whalen says she never spoke directly with Crowley at all. I think it was probably unfair of me to characterize these as lies instead of misstatements, but if this had gone to court, it would likely have damaged Crowley's credibility.

[eight6]

[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>To recap my position, cuz it's been a long thread, and I've read quite a few points which are not in conflict with my position:

1. Obama should not have poked his nose in a local police matter.
2. There is no significant evidence for Gates assertion that Crowley acted in a racist or discriminatory manner.
3. Gates speech was belligerent-- raving even, but this is lawful. Although verbally abusive, Gates was no threat or danger to the officers, neighbors or passers-by.
4. What remains is a routine matter of law enforcement. Crowley was lawfully there to investigate a possible B&E. Was probable cause established? [i]No.[/i] Crowley should have GTFO and left Gates to wrestle the demons in his head. Instead we have a controversial arrest.
5. From a legal standpoint, Crowley was wrong to arrest Gates. The wrongful arrest doesn't make him a racist, though. It means he made an error in judgment. The DA wouldn't go near that charge.

eight6, with regard to Crowley's police report, there are 9-1-1 tapes and the dispatch tapes which were made public. In the tapes there is no mention of "black men with backpacks" which are in Crowley's report. Crowley's report also asserts that the caller ID'd Gates race, but the witness he attributed that statement to (Whalen) has denied telling Crowley that. Whalen says she never spoke directly with Crowley at all. I think it was probably unfair of me to characterize these as lies instead of misstatements, but if this had gone to court, it would likely have damaged Crowley's credibility.
[/quote]


Well, as Crowley didn't take the 9-1-1 call, and probably had 2 or 3 layers of people between him and the information as it was first called in, I think he deserves to be cut a bit of slack. It wouldn't be the first time suspect information was updated/changed on the fly.

Still, all players being equal, Gates bears the brunt of responsibility for this situation becoming what it has. Barry Bonehead can also lay claim to a not insignificant share of that responsibility. Crowley...at worst, poor judgment brought on by the procedural rigidity that is modern law enforcement.

[MARV]

I think somebody suggested we all have a beer together. I got the first round.

<a href="http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/marvymarv/?action=view¤t=B-beer.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/marvymarv/B-beer.jpg" border="0" alt="Round of Beer"></a>

<a href="http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/marvymarv/?action=view¤t=tick.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/marvymarv/tick.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[ghosty]

A quick scan through the Cambridge Mass police blotter reveals far more interesting cases than the Gates/Crowley lunacy.


"November 12

A Boston resident was arrested at 2:30 p.m. at 1 Eliot St. after causing a disturbance yelling at customers, hitting his head against the building's glass entry, and smashing a large plant in its stand against a tile floor, damaging the floor. "


Why can't CNN/FOX/MSNBC devote a weeklong news cycle to this?

[i_like_lectric_motors]

Another thing - as president, shouldn't he be setting a better example for our young people? What kind of message is he sending when he suggests that even something as serious as this situation can be made better or perhaps completely overcome by sitting around and consuming alcohol? What is his thought process here? Suggesting that members of 2 ethnic groups known for having their share of problems with alcohol throughout history get together and knock back a few 40's of Colt .45 and a few pints o'Guinness is at best irresponsible.