More Barry BS

[SallyLightfoot]

[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>Just out of curiosity, Sally - how many of those in the left column do you agree with? I'm 7/10.[/quote]I agree with nearly all of these as described, but the devil is in the details. There are a couple I'm not 100% on, such as public-schooling. I don't think anyone has decent solutions for education, so it's hard to back either party.

[i_like_lectric_motors]

Hey, the list changed! Now it's only 8/13.

[SallyLightfoot]

[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>Hey, the list changed! Now it's only 8/13.[/quote]I think even Obama probably only supports about 8/13 of these.[;)] How many things do you agree with in the right column? (I'm not assuming that disagreeing with something on the left means you agree with its counterpart on the right)

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
How many things do you agree with in the right column? (I'm not assuming that disagreeing with something on the left means you agree with its counterpart on the right)
[/quote]

Right ... thinking it's fine to bring weapons to town hall meetings in no way means I think it's Ok to arrest people wearing anti-Bush t-shirts(or ANY t-shirt, for that matter)so I can't count that one. And being against welfare for the needy, sick/injured, elderly doesn't mean I'm for corporate welfare either. Therefore, my answer would be 2.80 - Pro private schools and vouchers, warrantless wiretapping, and Pro-Patriot Act, nat'l database, no-fly lists, and torture.

[SallyLightfoot]

[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>Therefore, my answer would be 2.80 - Pro private schools and vouchers, warrantless wiretapping, and Pro-Patriot Act, nat'l database, no-fly lists, and torture.[/quote]Wow, based on that last one, if I'm not mistaken, you're at odds with Ron Paul's agenda, aren't you?

[NuWaveRx]

[quote]but the devil is in the details. [/quote]

The devil is not only in the details, but in your phrasing. While I may not be for complete "Pro Wall St laissez-faire", I'm certainly for the MINIMUM govermental intervention in the free market system. The same with "Think it's wrong to bring weapons to town hall mtgs". I'm for the MINIMUM intrusions to the 2nd admendment possible. Many of the issues listed are not as black and white as the examples you put forth.

I guess that's why I dislike the whole "right wing"/"left wing" thing. And probably why Libertarians tend to ally themselves with so-called "conservatives". If you use the American political definition of conservative: Limited government, Personal Freedom, and limited intrusion of the Free Market, instead of the current definition co-opted by the Hannities of this world, many libertarians would fall under the classic definition. So, based on the more, ahem, liberal definition of the term: I believe conservative (libertarians) would support terms on both sides of your chart, Sally

[i_like_lectric_motors]

[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by i_like_lectric_motors[/i]
<br>Therefore, my answer would be 2.80 - Pro private schools and vouchers, warrantless wiretapping, and Pro-Patriot Act, nat'l database, no-fly lists, and torture.[/quote]Wow, based on that last one, if I'm not mistaken, you're at odds with Ron Paul's agenda, aren't you?
[/quote]

Yes ... on that and a few other things. You can't have it all.

[SallyLightfoot]

[quote][i]Originally posted by NuWaveRx[/i]
<br>[quote]but the devil is in the details. [/quote]

The devil is not only in the details, but in your phrasing. While I may not be for complete "Pro Wall St laissez-faire", I'm certainly for the MINIMUM govermental intervention in the free market system. The same with "Think it's wrong to bring weapons to town hall mtgs". I'm for the MINIMUM intrusions to the 2nd admendment possible. Many of the issues listed are not as black and white as the examples you put forth.

I guess that's why I dislike the whole "right wing"/"left wing" thing. And probably why Libertarians tend to ally themselves with so-called "conservatives". If you use the American political definition of conservative: Limited government, Personal Freedom, and limited intrusion of the Free Market, instead of the current definition co-opted by the Hannities of this world, many libertarians would fall under the classic definition. So, based on the more, ahem, liberal definition of the term: I believe conservative (libertarians) would support terms on both sides of your chart, Sally[/quote]Hi NuWaveRx--
I agree, and I think the left/right labels are a gross oversimplification. Also, I wrote it up fairly quickly and my words/phrasing is intended more for purposes of contrast.

I think that terms such as "minimum" (as in accepting "minimum intrusions" to the 2nd amendment, or "minimal govt. intrusions" to the free market) aren't very helpful either, since there isn't broad agreement on what an acceptable minimum would look like-- again, the devil is in the details. Thanks for the input.

[ghosty]

Where did you get this chart, Sally? I'm assuming it's homemade?

[SallyLightfoot]

[quote][i]Originally posted by ghosty[/i]
<br>Where did you get this chart, Sally? I'm assuming it's homemade? [/quote]Yeah, I just pulled a bunch of those things off the top of my head. I'm sure there are far better lists out there, and, as NuWaveRX pointed out, written from a more neutral point of view.

[djcraig]

[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>[b]djcraig[/b]: "Next you're gonna tell me that all the Left wants is to do is guard our freedoms and not regulate every possible aspect of our lives."

Can you tell me more specifically what you mean by the left "regulating every possible aspect of our lives"? Maybe give examples? That way I don't waste time responding, only to discover that you didn't know what you meant either.
[/quote]

First tell me how telling people how to live is any more the domain of the right-wing than the left.

I don't expect you to understand but for the rest- The more "regulation" there is the more CONTROL the gov't. has and the less freedom individuals have left. Creating a nation of government dependent drones was never the intention of our founding fathers.

But here, have it your way:

<table border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="center">[b]Left[/b]</td><td align="center">[b]Right[/b]</td></tr><tr><td>Pro consumer protections & worker safety</td><td>Pro corporate greed and corruption</td></tr><tr><td>Welfare for needy, sick/injured, elderly</td><td>Let 'em die!</td></tr><tr><td>Pro regulation of energy markets (From the same mentality that brought you the banking collapse!)</td><td>Zzzzz...</td></tr>
<tr><td>Pro-environmental regulation (lately based on a knee jerk reaction to an unproven theory)</td><td>Let's destroy the planet our children will inherit!</td></tr><tr><td>Pro-food/drug testing (You may get that life saving drug in 7 years if you're still alive)</td><td>Feed everyone poison</td></tr><tr><td>Pro-FISA court</td><td>God bless Big Brother!</td></tr><tr><td>Anti nat'l ID card, preemptive arrest, indefinite detention, torture (extreme Left wing regimes are NEVER known for THIS!)</td><td>We're all going to hell!</td></tr><tr><td>Pro-financial regulation (except that they resisted any attempt by the Bush Admin to reign in Fannie May and Freddie Mac)</td><td>Gordon Gecko is our hero</td></tr><tr><td>Pro-public schools</td><td>I iz a hi skool gradooit!</td></tr><tr><td>All citizens are equal before the law, regardless of class/race</td><td>White supremacy</td></tr><tr><td>Favor a woman's right to choose</td><td>Forced sterilization</td></tr><tr><td>Think it's wrong to bring weapons to town hall mtgs</td><td>Shoot 'em up yee haw!</td></tr><tr><td>Govt should not intervene in end-of-life decisions</td><td>Pro Death Panels</td></tr></table>

Well you got it out of me and the truth has now been exposed, dammit!




<a href="http://www.djcraig.net/los_angeles_dj">DJ Craig</a>

[SallyLightfoot]

[b]djcraig[/b]: "First tell me how telling people how to live is any more the domain of the right-wing than the left."

For public policy, the right wing says, "Free markets are best. Don't in any way inhibit the ability for corporations to pursue profit."

However, for personal, individual policy, the right wing says, "The US is a christian nation founded upon christian principles. Anyone who does not live according to christian values is un-American, and federal and local laws as well as school curricula should reinforce biblical principles." Add to that the fact that the right-wing qualifies its belief to the right to privacy/habeas corpus, free speech, religion and civil rights, and you are left with an ideology that believes that God intends for us to live a certain way, according to rules interpreted by a clergy class.

<a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Little_Rock_integration_protest.jpg" target="_new"><img src="http://static1.firedoglake.com/1/files//2009/09/little_rock_integration_protest-small.jpg" height="166" width="250"></a>

For public policy, the left does not trust the free-market's bend toward oligopoly and cronyism, and its belief that capital has more value than labor (instead of being on equal footing). The left believes that markets must be regulated to remain balanced and healthy.

The left also has its personal ideology, based on ensuring equality and equal access in society (the opposite of authoritarianism and elitism), a strong belief in the importance of the middle class and labor, a respect for nature and wish for natural resources to be protected for future generations, and a secular liberal view of human progress rather than one ordained by religion.

[ghosty]

[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>[b]djcraig[/b]: "First tell me how telling people how to live is any more the domain of the right-wing than the left."

For public policy, the right wing says, "Free markets are best. Don't in any way inhibit the ability for corporations to pursue profit."

However, for personal, individual policy, the right wing says, "The US is a christian nation founded upon christian principles. Anyone who does not live according to christian values is un-American, and federal and local laws as well as school curricula should reinforce biblical principles." Add to that the fact that the right-wing qualifies its belief to the right to privacy/habeas corpus, free speech, religion and civil rights, and you are left with an ideology that believes that God intends for us to live a certain way, according to rules interpreted by a clergy class.

<a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Little_Rock_integration_protest.jpg" target="_new"><img src="http://static1.firedoglake.com/1/files//2009/09/little_rock_integration_protest-small.jpg" height="166" width="250"></a>

For public policy, the left does not trust the free-market's bend toward oligopoly and cronyism, and its belief that capital has more value than labor (instead of being on equal footing). The left believes that markets must be regulated to remain balanced and healthy.

The left also has its personal ideology, based on ensuring equality and equal access in society (the opposite of authoritarianism and elitism), a strong belief in the importance of the middle class and labor, a respect for nature and wish for natural resources to be protected for future generations, and a secular liberal view of human progress rather than one ordained by religion.
[/quote]

Don't get the point of the photo. Southern Democrats had a long murky relationship with integration. Racism is not a Left/Right issue.

[SallyLightfoot]

The point of the photo is to help bring an issue to life-- that ideology and religion are often used as a basis for dictating how others should live. I think the photo is a pretty good illustration of the issues at play here:<ol><li>It shows a group protesting racial integration of an Arkansas high-school in 1959 (and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation_laws#Anti-miscegenation_Laws_enacted_in_the_Thirteen_Colonies_and_the_United_States" target="_new">interracial marriage bans</a> would remain on the books in 16 states until 1967)</li><li>Two of the signs equate racial integration with communism, i.e. being a traitor to the country. This links the protesters to the Red Scare era led by Republican Sen. Joe McCarthy.</li><li>One of the signs attacks integration from a religious viewpoint ("March of the Antichrist")</li></ol>It's not my intent to suggest that Democrats or the Left have not committed injustice, either today or in the past. Racism is a human issue that cuts across all categories of society. Having said that, however, there are political parties and ideologies which embrace racist policies (and anti-civil rights) in their platforms more than others.

[SallyLightfoot]

One of my favorite comparisons of Right v Left:

<a href="http://www.villagevoice.com/2006-01-24/news/dude-where-s-my-party/" target="_newx"><img src="http://images.villagevoice.com/issues/0605/sutton-big.jpg" height="449" width="484"></a>