Tomorrow's the big vote. So what do you think, will your life be better off or worse off with this health care reform bill?
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/22/ ... index.html
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Health Care Reform
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Health Care Reform
by MARV » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:36 am
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by SallyLightfoot » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:22 am
Most people have employer-supported insurance, so I doubt many of the obvious benefits apply to us. Having said that, however, there are new rules & restrictions on insurance companies that we may benefit from, at least until the insurance companies devise new loopholes and workarounds.
[b]Benefits in the Health Care Reform Act which are immediate[/b]:
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM136_0 ... ables.html
<UL><LI>Access to Affordable Coverage for the Uninsured with Pre-existing Conditions</LI><LI>Access to Quality Care for Vulnerable Populations</LI><LI>No Pre-existing Coverage Exclusions for Children</LI><LI>Re-insurance for Retiree Health Benefit Plans</LI><LI>Closing the Coverage Gap in the Medicare (Part D) Drug Benefit</LI><LI>Small Business Tax Credits</LI><LI>Ensuring Value for Premium Payments</LI><LI>Patient Protections</LI><LI>Extension of Dependent Coverage for Young Adults</LI><LI>Free Prevention Benefits</LI><LI>No Lifetime Limits on Coverage</LI><LI>Restricted Annual Limits on Coverage</LI><LI>Protection from Rescissions of Existing Coverage</LI><LI>Prohibits Discrimination Based on Salary</LI><LI>Public Access to Comparable Information on Insurance Options</LI><LI>Health Insurance Consumer Information</LI><LI>Appeals Process</LI></UL>I still resent that this bill caved-in on a public option, and therefore relies on the insurance industry to "play nice", but I think the bill is an incremental improvement that is better than the alternative (read: nothing). I don't see how the middle class will be able to afford the premiums and out of pocket expenses (see <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/23/818372/-This-Senate-Health-Bill-Does-Not-Provide-Affordable-Insurance" target="_new">here</a> and <a href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/12/16/the-mybarackobamatax/" target="_new">here</a>). It's a let-down, but I'm willing to see what develops.
[b]Benefits in the Health Care Reform Act which are immediate[/b]:
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM136_0 ... ables.html
<UL><LI>Access to Affordable Coverage for the Uninsured with Pre-existing Conditions</LI><LI>Access to Quality Care for Vulnerable Populations</LI><LI>No Pre-existing Coverage Exclusions for Children</LI><LI>Re-insurance for Retiree Health Benefit Plans</LI><LI>Closing the Coverage Gap in the Medicare (Part D) Drug Benefit</LI><LI>Small Business Tax Credits</LI><LI>Ensuring Value for Premium Payments</LI><LI>Patient Protections</LI><LI>Extension of Dependent Coverage for Young Adults</LI><LI>Free Prevention Benefits</LI><LI>No Lifetime Limits on Coverage</LI><LI>Restricted Annual Limits on Coverage</LI><LI>Protection from Rescissions of Existing Coverage</LI><LI>Prohibits Discrimination Based on Salary</LI><LI>Public Access to Comparable Information on Insurance Options</LI><LI>Health Insurance Consumer Information</LI><LI>Appeals Process</LI></UL>I still resent that this bill caved-in on a public option, and therefore relies on the insurance industry to "play nice", but I think the bill is an incremental improvement that is better than the alternative (read: nothing). I don't see how the middle class will be able to afford the premiums and out of pocket expenses (see <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/23/818372/-This-Senate-Health-Bill-Does-Not-Provide-Affordable-Insurance" target="_new">here</a> and <a href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/12/16/the-mybarackobamatax/" target="_new">here</a>). It's a let-down, but I'm willing to see what develops.
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by djcraig » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:38 am
Most of the time when the gov't tries to "help" us "improve" our lives with some comprehensive new panacea, the law of unintended consequences, gov't inefficiency, bureaucratic malaise, huge cost overruns, lack of oversight and enforcement and corruption and kicks in to ensure failure.
If the government had been tasked to invent the wheel we'd all still be living in caves. I sure don't want some unaccountable, faceless bureaucracy responsible for so many past catastrophic blunders in charge of my health.
Not that the retards in congress really care- they've got their OWN health care plan.
<hr>
According to Rasmussen Reports- December 21, 2009:
Just 19% Strongly Favor the plan while 45% are Strongly Opposed.
Polling released last week showed that 57% of voters say passing nothing would be preferable to passing the current legislation.
Most voters (54%) believe they personally will be worse off if the legislation passes.
Fifty-three percent (53%) of voters believe that passage of the legislation will lead to a lower quality of care, and 58% say it will drive the cost of care up.
Among senior citizens, the group most likely to use the health care system, just 33% are in favor while 60% are opposed.
<hr>
I know I know, we've all had the wool pulled over our eyes by the right wing media and should just trust that the gov't knows what's best...
<a href="http://www.djcraig.net/los_angeles_dj">DJ Craig</a>
If the government had been tasked to invent the wheel we'd all still be living in caves. I sure don't want some unaccountable, faceless bureaucracy responsible for so many past catastrophic blunders in charge of my health.
Not that the retards in congress really care- they've got their OWN health care plan.
<hr>
According to Rasmussen Reports- December 21, 2009:
Just 19% Strongly Favor the plan while 45% are Strongly Opposed.
Polling released last week showed that 57% of voters say passing nothing would be preferable to passing the current legislation.
Most voters (54%) believe they personally will be worse off if the legislation passes.
Fifty-three percent (53%) of voters believe that passage of the legislation will lead to a lower quality of care, and 58% say it will drive the cost of care up.
Among senior citizens, the group most likely to use the health care system, just 33% are in favor while 60% are opposed.
<hr>
I know I know, we've all had the wool pulled over our eyes by the right wing media and should just trust that the gov't knows what's best...
<a href="http://www.djcraig.net/los_angeles_dj">DJ Craig</a>
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by SallyLightfoot » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:33 am
[b]djcraig[/b]: [i]Most of the time when the gov't tries to "help" us "improve" our lives with some comprehensive new panacea, the law of unintended consequences, gov't inefficiency, bureaucratic malaise, huge cost overruns, lack of oversight and enforcement and corruption and kicks in to ensure failure.[/i]
Hey, that sounds like the corporate world too-- at least you can vote governments out of office. The health insurance companies are doing such a swell job adding value to our health system-- we should just get rid of Medicare and Medicaid and let the free market absorb these unprofitable customers.
[b]djcraig[/b]: [i]If the government had been tasked to invent the wheel we'd all still be living in caves. I sure don't want some unaccountable, faceless bureaucracy responsible for so many past catastrophic blunders in charge of my health.[/i]
If not for government, we probably would be living in the equivalent of caves. How did civilization begin? We stopped hunting/gathering as large game became more scarce, and began domesticating crops and livestock. This transition required planning (and taxes)-- some despot or warlord realized that an irrigation system needed to be built, so land was confiscated from farmers to build ditches and a reservoir. Then they built a central location to store grains and harvested crops. Then they devised a method to record and store wealth (writing and money). Then, to protect their settlements and cities they built fortified walls and raised a professional army (now that labor could be divided and specialized). All the way up to modern times, government has been responsible for planning and distribution of the benefits of that society. Almost every advance in civilization was enabled by central planning and implementation by some form of government, using taxes levied from the populace. And in many cases, everyone was better off for it.
You can probably name a handful of inventors who made big contributions to civilization, but many of those contributions were subsidized, patented, regulated/standardized and made uniformly available to the public with the support of government.
[b]djcraig[/b]: [i]I sure don't want some unaccountable, faceless bureaucracy responsible for so many past catastrophic blunders in charge of my health.[/i]
Hmmm. Maybe you haven't hear? There is no public option in this bill. In this bill, there is no government entity competing with the private insurers. All health care in the US (outside of Medicaid and Medicare, the VA and Congress -- although all but the VA do use private health care providers) will continue to be performed entirely by private insurers covering payments on behalf of patients to private hospitals/doctors/care providers (who in turn use medication and supplies purchased from private pharma corps). The main things that are new are new insurance regulations and subsidies for middle/working-class uninsured people and children.
If you want unaccountable and faceless bureaucracy, the insurance companies are perfect for you. When your child is diagnosed with diabetes, or if you need expensive treatment, the insurers would run a few calculations on your profitability and then come up with a way to deny your coverage (e.g., maybe you failed to report that you used acne medication when you were a teenager). The insurers don't give a rat's ass about your health and whether or not you or your kids live or die. They are professional skimmers, pure and simple-- they do not provide or administer any health services. They are middlemen who take around 30% of each dollar of premium to show profits to Wall St.
[b]djcraig[/b]: [i]Not that the retards in congress really care- they've got their OWN health care plan.[/i]
And why should any of us be able to purchase into a plan like theirs which puts more money into paying claims instead of corporate jets and CEO salaries?
[b]djcraig[/b]: [i]I know I know, we've all had the wool pulled over our eyes by the right wing media and should just trust that the gov't knows what's best...[/i]
Nobody should ever trust the government, irrespective of whichever party is in power. But we should definitely not trust the mainstream media, TV news or political pundits either. All of these outlets are only trying to boost a news story, further a political horse-race narrative, or play favor to one party or the other. Polls are not always useful for passing legislation (slavery and civil rights would not have passed). Health care bill does not poll well (people on the left are disappointed, and people on the right hate it just on principle), but it also shows that people are confused (i.e., the public option has public support, but the reform bill does not). Also, the health care costs in this bill will be shouldered primarily by those who use the system, not by most taxpayers. So despite criticism from the right, adopting this bill does not mean that we are [i]all[/i] paying for it, or that it adds to our deficit.
Hey, that sounds like the corporate world too-- at least you can vote governments out of office. The health insurance companies are doing such a swell job adding value to our health system-- we should just get rid of Medicare and Medicaid and let the free market absorb these unprofitable customers.
[b]djcraig[/b]: [i]If the government had been tasked to invent the wheel we'd all still be living in caves. I sure don't want some unaccountable, faceless bureaucracy responsible for so many past catastrophic blunders in charge of my health.[/i]
If not for government, we probably would be living in the equivalent of caves. How did civilization begin? We stopped hunting/gathering as large game became more scarce, and began domesticating crops and livestock. This transition required planning (and taxes)-- some despot or warlord realized that an irrigation system needed to be built, so land was confiscated from farmers to build ditches and a reservoir. Then they built a central location to store grains and harvested crops. Then they devised a method to record and store wealth (writing and money). Then, to protect their settlements and cities they built fortified walls and raised a professional army (now that labor could be divided and specialized). All the way up to modern times, government has been responsible for planning and distribution of the benefits of that society. Almost every advance in civilization was enabled by central planning and implementation by some form of government, using taxes levied from the populace. And in many cases, everyone was better off for it.
You can probably name a handful of inventors who made big contributions to civilization, but many of those contributions were subsidized, patented, regulated/standardized and made uniformly available to the public with the support of government.
[b]djcraig[/b]: [i]I sure don't want some unaccountable, faceless bureaucracy responsible for so many past catastrophic blunders in charge of my health.[/i]
Hmmm. Maybe you haven't hear? There is no public option in this bill. In this bill, there is no government entity competing with the private insurers. All health care in the US (outside of Medicaid and Medicare, the VA and Congress -- although all but the VA do use private health care providers) will continue to be performed entirely by private insurers covering payments on behalf of patients to private hospitals/doctors/care providers (who in turn use medication and supplies purchased from private pharma corps). The main things that are new are new insurance regulations and subsidies for middle/working-class uninsured people and children.
If you want unaccountable and faceless bureaucracy, the insurance companies are perfect for you. When your child is diagnosed with diabetes, or if you need expensive treatment, the insurers would run a few calculations on your profitability and then come up with a way to deny your coverage (e.g., maybe you failed to report that you used acne medication when you were a teenager). The insurers don't give a rat's ass about your health and whether or not you or your kids live or die. They are professional skimmers, pure and simple-- they do not provide or administer any health services. They are middlemen who take around 30% of each dollar of premium to show profits to Wall St.
[b]djcraig[/b]: [i]Not that the retards in congress really care- they've got their OWN health care plan.[/i]
And why should any of us be able to purchase into a plan like theirs which puts more money into paying claims instead of corporate jets and CEO salaries?
[b]djcraig[/b]: [i]I know I know, we've all had the wool pulled over our eyes by the right wing media and should just trust that the gov't knows what's best...[/i]
Nobody should ever trust the government, irrespective of whichever party is in power. But we should definitely not trust the mainstream media, TV news or political pundits either. All of these outlets are only trying to boost a news story, further a political horse-race narrative, or play favor to one party or the other. Polls are not always useful for passing legislation (slavery and civil rights would not have passed). Health care bill does not poll well (people on the left are disappointed, and people on the right hate it just on principle), but it also shows that people are confused (i.e., the public option has public support, but the reform bill does not). Also, the health care costs in this bill will be shouldered primarily by those who use the system, not by most taxpayers. So despite criticism from the right, adopting this bill does not mean that we are [i]all[/i] paying for it, or that it adds to our deficit.
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by SallyLightfoot » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:35 am
[quote][i]Originally posted by marie3[/i]<br>This bill sucks. What's the point without a public option. What a bunch of idiots.[/quote]It does suck without a public option. I have a hard time supporting it, but there are some benefits-- it's just pathetic that strong cost-cutting & competition aren't included. The current Senate is a worthless bag of dicks.
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by marie3 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:46 am
[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by marie3[/i]<br>This bill sucks. What's the point without a public option. What a bunch of idiots.[/quote]It does suck without a public option. I have a hard time supporting it, but there are some benefits-- it's just pathetic that strong cost-cutting & competition aren't included. The current Senate is a worthless bag of dicks.
[/quote]
Agreed.
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by marie3[/i]<br>This bill sucks. What's the point without a public option. What a bunch of idiots.[/quote]It does suck without a public option. I have a hard time supporting it, but there are some benefits-- it's just pathetic that strong cost-cutting & competition aren't included. The current Senate is a worthless bag of dicks.
[/quote]
Agreed.
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by Frau_Blucher » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:37 am
[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>The current Senate is a worthless bag of dicks.
[/quote]
<img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/L000504.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/S000320.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/B001135.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/D000563.jpg">
<br>The current Senate is a worthless bag of dicks.
[/quote]
<img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/L000504.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/S000320.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/B001135.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/D000563.jpg">
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by schwenko » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:48 am
[quote][i]Originally posted by Blir[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>The current Senate is a worthless bag of dicks.
[/quote]
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/ ... 000504.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/S000320.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/B001135.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/D000563.jpg">
[/quote]
<img src="http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll80/HillbillReport/PhotoBucket.jpg">
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>The current Senate is a worthless bag of dicks.
[/quote]
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/ ... 000504.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/S000320.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/B001135.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/D000563.jpg">
[/quote]
<img src="http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll80/HillbillReport/PhotoBucket.jpg">
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by schwenko » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:00 pm
[quote][i]Originally posted by schwenko[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by Blir[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>The current Senate is a worthless bag of dicks.
[/quote]
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/ ... 000504.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/S000320.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/B001135.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/D000563.jpg">
[/quote]
<img src="http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll80/HillbillReport/PhotoBucket.jpg">
[/quote]
<img src="http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/files/2009/11/orrinhatch.jpg">
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by Blir[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>The current Senate is a worthless bag of dicks.
[/quote]
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/ ... 000504.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/S000320.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/B001135.jpg"> <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/D000563.jpg">
[/quote]
<img src="http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll80/HillbillReport/PhotoBucket.jpg">
[/quote]
<img src="http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/files/2009/11/orrinhatch.jpg">
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by ghosty » Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:21 am
[quote][i]Originally posted by SallyLightfoot[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by marie3[/i]<br>This bill sucks. What's the point without a public option. What a bunch of idiots.[/quote]It does suck without a public option. I have a hard time supporting it, but there are some benefits-- it's just pathetic that strong cost-cutting & competition aren't included. The current Senate is a worthless bag of dicks.
[/quote]
Yeah, without the public option this does very little good for someone like me.
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by marie3[/i]<br>This bill sucks. What's the point without a public option. What a bunch of idiots.[/quote]It does suck without a public option. I have a hard time supporting it, but there are some benefits-- it's just pathetic that strong cost-cutting & competition aren't included. The current Senate is a worthless bag of dicks.
[/quote]
Yeah, without the public option this does very little good for someone like me.
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by SallyLightfoot » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:48 am
[quote][i]Originally posted by randy[/i]<br>I like my insurance-(employer supported ) as it is. Don't screw with it.[/quote]Good news! There won't be any changes with your employer supported insurance; you can expect insurance premiums to rise each year as usual, and you can expect your employer to trim your future salary increases accordingly.
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