What is the appeal of Goth??

[beatschool]

[quote][i]Originally posted by KYYX4ever[/i]
<br>I love the sound of a lot of goth bands...ethereal, otherworldly, moody, intense, unique soundscapes. I favor older goth, although there are several newer goth bands that I am a fan of: Switchblade Sympathy, Cruxshadows, Bella Morte, Diary of Dreams, Fields of the Nephilim, Hungry Lucy, Black Tape for a Blue Girl, etc. Also, I heavily favor the more synthy, swirly goth over edgy, industrial goth. A lot of that stuff just plain hurts the ears.

But really, goth creates a certain mood, and I enjoy listening/dancing to it ( when applicable) when I'm in a thoughtful, pensive mood myself. I like the gloomy aural soundscape---but all in good measure. I can't listen to too much in one sitting. Because let's face it: it IS depressing and gloomy.[|)][|)]
[/quote]

KYYX4Ever -

Being that you are also a former Washingtonian, did you call Goths "Bat-cavers" like us SeaTac clubbers did? I didn't hear them referred to as Goths until 1987.

[Ollie Stench]

We called 'em "Dark Siders" in Minneapolis, and the term spawned the song "Darksider" by Morticia.

[KYYX4ever]

beatschool,
i must confess that we/I didn't call them anything at the time. Maybe there wasn't a word/ label yet. Personally, in my mind, I'd think of the early goths in the NorthWest as "cool-ahead-of-their-time-they-look-like-British" style fashionistas. Honest, I thought that early goth look was sooooo cool, so unique, so original. It directly influenced my look. At the time, I don't remember it being called "Goth" yet.

now, those of us who still may have the look are "fogey goths"--ha ha![:X]

[ghosty]

I'm not really all that into Goth but I can appreciate some of it. I always thought it was "cartoon" gloomy, not truly sad and depressing music. For example, I have a tape of a song by Brian Wilson called "Still I Dream Of It" where he begs Jesus to help him find a girlfriend. It's far and away much more depressing than any Goth track I've ever heard.
All of the Goths I know seem pretty well-adjusted and happy. They're also in on the joke and have a good time with it all.

[Ronnie]

We called it death rock when I was a young, growing up in L.A. And the folks weren't 'goths,' they were death rockers.

The synth stuff bugged me trememndously, but the harder stuff appeale to me a great deal. Loved Bauhaus, Tones on Tail, Specimen, Alien Sex Fiend, The Cramps, etc. I think death rock was a ittle more tenuous than what fols refer to as goth these days. i think death rock was just anything that sounded really dark and kind of scary. One of the scariest songs I ever hear was by U.K. Decay, called 'Night of the Living Dread,' I think, or maybe 'something-Werewolf,' I can't recall. You could actually hear a werewolf stalking someone and then puncing on it's victim! Yikes!

We tended to lump in a lot of bands under death rock, lke Einstruzende neubaten, Throbbing Gristle, Test Dept., Nina Hagen, whatever was dark.

Great stuff for a depressed loner teen to listen to, huh?

[getyourbootson]

First of all WoodlandParkPunk, Goth is represented in different genres and aspects. There is Deathrock and then there is Gothic. There is a fine line between the two, and the two go hand in hand, but when I was in high school, the term “Deathrock” ruled over “Gothic”. I remember a couple of my new met friends (younger than me, and from Orange County), answering people’s questions off the street “What are you guys?” they responded “Gothic”. I turned, stunned, and was like “Gothic?” and then turned back to the person and told them “It’s Deathrock”. #laughs# as you can see, that was probably around the turning point where Deathrock started to lose it’s label and “Gothic” started to become the label of the time. This was around 1986. In my high school yearbooks, around 1984, the Deathrockers were quoted to be “death people” #laughs.#

So, in that respect, knowing that so many bands of Goth and Deathrock go hand in hand, even though I listened to more Deathrock and Punk, some bands were also considered “Goth”. To this day, Bauhaus is considered a Goth band, although I would say Christian Death was much more Goth than Bauhaus, although Christian Death was one of the pioneering bands of the “Deathrock,” movement along with Kommunity Fuck, playing in the L.A. clubs. So, it is hard to draw a line, although I find that I like more Deathrock-y bands than Goth. Goth to me is cheesy, and pretentious, drawing spider webs on your face and pretending you are a vampire. In high school, I dressed in Docs, leather jacket, flannels, suspenders, lots of bracelets, black spikey-Cure-ish hair (and other colors) and eyeliner. I thought the people with painted faces were cheesy and didn’t see very much of it, but it was beginning to become popular.

So, when you say, what is the appeal of “Gothic,” I have to say, that I really don’t understand it myself. However, if you ask what is the appeal to the old Goth/Deathrock of the 80’s, then I can give a clearer answer. And I’m sure, since you are asking, you do not know the difference.

Bands like Bella Morte, Black Tape for a Blue Girl, Attrition, Cinema Strange, Diva Destruction, London After Midnight are clearly new style Gothic. These bands, and so many like them are so horrible and such a waste! It’s a shame that they use the term “Gothic”, something Bauhaus, Siouxsie and other pioneers are known for. I’m ashamed. Don’t get me wrong. There are several Goth bands that came out later that I like, Switchblade Symphony is one off the top of my head.

So, the appeal to Gothic is different now, than it was in the 80’s. The appeal to me back then was that I was very rebellious and wanted to shock and give a big “Fuck You” to my parents and the world, and the more I could do that, the better. It’s a similar statement of Punk. Not to mention, the music is captivating, and the lyrics speak to people. It’s melancholy and mysterious and resonates with how you are feeling. People lean towards music that has the same meaning and feeling as you are feeling in your life. If you are not down and feeling depressed, then the music is not going to speak to you, but it’s not that you even have to be depressed. Most of the music is very emotional and speaks to people on different levels. If you don’t understand it, then you obviously don’t get it. But it’s great when you do, because you find yourself so attuned to so many people that do get it and share the same feelings that you do. It is impossible to explain how you feel when you hear your favorite Goth or Deathrock song. It’s just an emotion. The same you get when you here your favorite Punk song. #Shrugs# It’s an understanding and knowing that “a-ha, so others feel the same as I do.” If you don’t feel that way, then you will never get it.

Swamp Thing – although I find those lyrics so cheesy, that is so true and such a great song! #laughs# Morissey borders on cheesy, but he can get away with it! Why is that? He comes off to be so honest and sensitive that we relate, hehe. “I know I’m unlovebale! You don’t have to tell me!” That song rocks! The Smiths rock! ;o)

Ollie Stench – love the old style bands! X-mal is great. As for the Cure, they were one of the forerunners of the Post punk movement, along with Siouxsie. The term became known as “Gothic” but in the L.A scene it was known as Deathrock. I would pin the Cure as a Deathrock band. That’s just me. I mean, come on, they can even get away with being a Goth band. You listen to the songs Charlotte Sometimes or A Forest, etc. You can’t say that is Gothic? / You’ve obviously missed the meaning of the Cure. Yes, they went very poppy, but in their early years they were nothing poppy. Listen to Seventeen Seconds, Faith and Pornography. You might understand the idea of “the Cure being Goth” a little better when you hear those albums.

Edisonoside- another reason Goth or Deathrock appeals to people. Thanks for pointing that out! Goth is danceable! If you like to dance, it’s the perfect music to get into.

Design femme – The baseline of Christine sums your point up, brooding, mysterious, pulsing and pleasing all at the same time! ;oD

XXX – please don’t compare Goth to New Ro. They are two totally different tastes, genres, mentalities and do not go hand in hand. Yes Goths wear frilly shirts in the style of old vampires, yes NewRo’s wear frills in the style of old Romantics. Don’t take it too far. They are not the same!

Ronnie – nice explanation, although I never heard the UK Decay song! I am dying to hear it now! Hehe.

Hey, speaking of L.A., are there any Angelinos out there that remember the Anti-club? I remember trying to sneak in there, and Fenders in Long Beach when I was under age hehe, but a club that I do remember getting into was the Krypt. Sound familiar to anyone? I think this was pre-Helter Skelter. I don’t think Helter Skelter was happening until like ‘87 or ’88.

[design_femme]

Allen, great perspective! I have heard of the "Deathrock" tag, but I didn't know much about it. Somebody once told me, "oh that's what we called it before it was Goth," but your insight was way more informative!

ah, yes, Christian Death and Kommunity FK… I totally forgot about them. Never got into their music, but I have heard of the Deathrock label applied to them (or rather, as you said, they pioneered it).

I don't care much for the more recent Goth bands either. Not that they're bad, it's just that they never won my heart. But I agree, Switchblade Symphony is really good.

[Rokkr]

The appeal of Goth is based on the fact that we are all unique and beautiful snowflakes.
What's the next question? What is the meaning of life?

In any case, goth girls are hot.

[getyourbootson]

You know, I just reread this after a time, and I have to say to Design Femme, thank you for understanding my rambling. I think I went off a little bit, but I had to make my point, since that was a big part of my life.

And I never got into Christian Death. The dead cat on their first album just pissed me off, plus the heavily painted faces made my eyes roll. Oh well. I guess we can thank them for pioneering the movement. I did like the song Electra Descending though. ;o) amongst maybe one or two other songs. And Rozz actually went to Pamona High School. *laughs* and worked at a head shop in Pamona (If I got my facts straight. Hehe). He is (was) a person. I just had to drop that in there, since everyone makes him out to be some sort of god or something. He was just a guy in a band that got very popular. I don’t understand why people tattoo him all over their bodies. I’ll never understand that one.

As for Kommunity Fuck (FK), I was totally into them. I remember when they came out with a video for a song off of Close One Sad Eye (I can’t remember the single off hand). That band was really good. I remember them playing at the anti-club too. I think that was the band that I was trying to sneak in to see when I was under age. D If you get a chance, pick up that album, “Close One Sad Eye.” The song Noob on there is my favorite. Anyway, just wanted to post a follow up to your post! And one last comment. Not only is Christine a good song, but Siouxsie and the Banshees was my all time favorite band in high school! I couldn’t get enough of them! )

[mygreen]

[quote]Originally posted by WoodlandParkPunk
[br]Just curious. It just seems so depressing and lonely.
[/quote]

I agree it is so depressing. Although when I was in my New Wave heyday I dressed in a lot of black but I did not condsider myself depressed or lonely. Goth to me is quite scary.

[edisonoside]

I kinda want to crack up when people find Goths or the Goth scene to be scary!!! Has anyone ever had a bad or dangerous experience with a goth?...Or has anyone ever seen a Goth riot?...In reality the Rap scene is a thousand times more dangerous.

[nowhere girl]

I think there are a lot of good goth/death rock songs that overlap with a lot of the punk and new wave music I listen to(Kommunity FK, X-mal Deutschland, Cocteau Twins). In high school, I hung out with a group of goth girls and they were mostly pretty cool people. They were actually more laid back than the punks that I also hung out with. Like Design Femme wrote in her post, in the 80s, there wasn't really a clear-cut way a person had to be goth or death rock, and they hung out with me when I was punk/new wave, hung out with mods, and other people not in the mainstream at the time. I listened to some of their music, and sometimes they listened to my music. Some goth and death rock haven't been my favorites(I remember bringing one album back to the record store because it was not my taste), but there is a lot of good music in the scene.

Nowhere Girl

[mygreen]

[quote][i]Originally posted by edisonoside[/i]
<br>I kinda want to crack up when people find Goths or the Goth scene to be scary!!! Has anyone ever had a bad or dangerous experience with a goth?...Or has anyone ever seen a Goth riot?...In reality the Rap scene is a thousand times more dangerous.
[/quote]

I am not saying "scary" like ooh I am so afraid. I am just saying that it seems scary in a sense of like loners and c'mon the appeal is really depressing. I do not throw judgment towards anyone who dresses Goth. After all I am a product of the 80's and our fashion sense was SCARY. But that didn't stop me.

[edisonoside]

Sorry Coolschool I wasn't referring to you in particular..but the last part of your thread did spark my response a bit..I have noticed in others that have a phobia with the different and unusual are usually not in the scene at all and find it scary for different reasons that you and I would probrably find...unfamiliararity.

[mygreen]

[quote][i]Originally posted by edisonoside[/i]
<br>Sorry Coolschool I wasn't referring to you in particular..but the last part of your thread did spark my response a bit..I have noticed in others that have a phobia with the different and unusual are usually not in the scene at all and find it scary for different reasons that you and I would probrably find...unfamiliararity.
[/quote]

Hey Edi~ I think that there is somewhat of a difference between New Wave and Goth. I use to love to wear black. Black shirts, black rubber braclets, black mini skirt with black tights that stopped before the ankles and black flat shoes with black ribbons in my hair. I listened to weird music as my mom and dad would say but I was no where near being depressed - just hormones raging! I also loved Ministry and I thought that they were a little on the edge but not quite depressing. Goth today in my opinion is similar to the NW style. These kids are just trying to find their own identity- just like we did 20 years ago. I guess for me the look is "scary" but no way do I want to make a judgement call on the person becasue this is what teenagers are suppose to do is find out who they are and what they like.[:)]