When did New Wave DIE?

[General Boy]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Blir[/i]
<br>I bet a lotta people are with ya General. But I guess some of us are making the Billy Crystal distinction between mostly dead and dead. And my Max's Kansas City LP distinctly says "new wave" on the cover in 1976.
[/quote]

There we go!

I was gonna stretch it to '76, as a matter of fact, but didn't quite have the evidence to support that.

[react010]

Maybe we should all first think about what New-Wave really was (or is?) before we can answer this 'difficult' question as when it supposed to have 'died'?.

First of all, i think everyone has his or her own definition of what New-Wave is or was (as i see people on this forum mentioning artists and tracks that 'for me' don't have anything to do with New-Wave whatsoever). So it's very personal really.

For one person it's the artists who started out as NW artists (and have been associated with NW ever since (even if they changed there musical style).

For another it's how long they held on to being able to release records (regardless of the musical style, some up until this very day).

For another it's a beat or the use of synths in a certain way (regardless of the artist or track).

And for another NW is based on their chart-succes (and not even thinking about the differences between the European & Usa charts, as those differences where huge !!).

It's great to read on this forum what people's definitions of New-Wave (artists or tracks) are (or were) and when they think it died.
But in the end it's a question that cannot be answered really...

This topic is a very subjective topic, and that's what makes it fun to read in the end, but a definite answer cannot be given, never !!
Thank god [:)]

[Panorama]

In my heart and mind, New Wave lives on forever!
...I imagine it is much the same for all of us.
---------------------------
"Photography with a Vision"
http://www.cooganphoto.com

[JohnPaulGeorgeRingo]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Dan Coogan[/i]
<br>In my heart and mind, New Wave lives on forever!
...I imagine it is much the same for all of us.
---------------------------
"Photography with a Vision"
http://www.cooganphoto.com
[/quote]


very very good!!!

Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars.

[Quite Life]

Officailly it was June 22, 1985 the day the QUAKE KQAK FM 99 went off the air[:(][:(][:(][:(][:(][:(][:(][:(!][:(!][:(!]

[knowitallrecs]

[quote][i]Originally posted by JohnPaulGeorgeRingo[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by knowitallrecs[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by dearly beloved[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by knowitallrecs[/i]
<br>New Wave never died; it simply evolved.

To say that it perished only gives validity to the claims of its critics, who falsely claimed that the genre had no longevity. I refuse to give them the satisfaction or bookmark the style's lifespan between the good and bad years of my life or when a particular "sound" from its variety of flavors disappeared from radio or MTV. New Wave icons such as Echo & the Bunnymen, Depeche Mode, Erasure, the Cure, Simple Minds, the Lotus Eaters, the Church, Lloyd Cole, the Ocean Blue, among numerous others, continued to release albums after any so-called expiration date. Furthermore, young groups like Mono In VCF, Rialto, Franz Ferdinand, Bloc Party, the Pin-Up Girls,
Kaiser Chiefs, and the Killers can be played alongside "Rock of the '80s" and fool numerous people who didn't know they were new acts. (And it does work, too.)

New Wave, like heavy metal and hip-hop, simply absorbed more textures as the years progressed, adopting the latest technology, instrumentation, and recording techniques.

Dead? Only in the minds of people who refuse to accept change.

Dead? Only in the minds of critics who hated it in the first place.

Dead? Only in the minds of record companies who never understood it and wanted the country to move on.

New Wave is alive and well.

Michael Sutton
Staff Writer: The All-Music Guide
[/quote]

I can appreciate the tenets you employ in defense of the music we all love, knowitallrecs.

You're right that New Wave can never die in that there are forums like the NWOutpost and scads of young bands that (for the most part) adequately ape the genre. But yeah, the New Wave most of us knew some 20 odd years ago is dead. Not because it's a facet of modern music that had no depth, longevity or viability, but rather because all those original ideas and inspirations could only have happened at that time, demanding relevance, defining a generation as a reaction to things concurrent to that day.
Just as England's Punk movement was a reaction to stodgy old rock dinosaurs, or as grunge was a reaction to hair metal pretense.

As it's harshest critics blasted it as pre-packaged non-music, the joke was on them. New Wave could only have happened at the time that it did. It smeared lipstick on the dour countenenace of Post-Punk. It mirrored early eighties world excess and spat it right back in our faces. We loved NW for it....and still do.

Long live New Wave.
[/quote]

But wasn't the whole point of New Wave was to be progressive? To say that the genre only existed within a period of time, to me, goes against the genre's original purpose - to look into the future instead of being shackled by the past. It was supposed to evolve and not remain the same. Of course, New Wave in 2005 is not going to sound like New Wave in 1980. Your argument is well articulated, but I refuse to believe that New Wave could've only happened during a specific period. History repeats itself, socially and politically, and youths have an inherent need to rebel and discover their own individuality. Franz Ferdinand, the Pin-Up Girls, and Bloc Party are providing the same "fuck you" statements to rap-metal and corporate slush that Depeche Mode, Echo & the Bunnymen, and the Cure did in the '80s. You can look at New Wave as a cultural phenomenon that lasted from the late '70s to the early '80s, but there's dramatic stylistic growth in those years, too. The New Wave of 1977 was radically different from the New Wave of 1982. Shouldn't the New Wave of 1982 not be called New Wave then since it wasn't the same as the New Wave of 1977, which was more punk and certainly nowhere near as synth-based? If you look at it objectively instead of, "Oh, it ended in 1983 because I didn't like how it sounded anymore," you will see that the evolution of the genre had been in place the whole time and continued to the present time. To me, New Wave is an artform and not an artifact. I find it ironic that many people consider the lifespan of New Wave defined by the years of its most commercial success, the very thing that the genre was supposed to be against. (In the Philippines, New Wave didn't fade in popularity until 1991 when grunge and finally metal invaded. We never understood why American radio was hardly playing it anymore by the mid-'80s when we had three New Wave radio stations to choose from.) If New Wave was supposed to be an underground movement, then how did it die if it merely crawled back beyond mainstream consciousness?

Michael Sutton
Staff Writer: The All-Music Guide
[/quote]




I can relate. I'm from the Philippines.

We have here two new wave radio stations (WXB and Power Station).

Real New Wavers here are the only ones who know real "New Wave Music".

Argueably, these are the top 10 New Wave artists here, not in order (not mine, hehe).
U2, Tears For Fears, Echo & The Bunnymen, Duran Duran, Spandau Ballet, The Cure, Depeche Mode, Morrissey and The Smiths, OMD and Fra Lippo Lippi (does any of you know them?). I think they are more popular here than in their native Norway.

We all enjoyed Shout (TFF 84), Everything Counts (DM 84), Gold (SB 83), Everytime I See You (FLL 85),Two Rivers (The Adventures 86), West End Girls (PSB 85), If You Leave (OMD 85), etc. And we're just getting started.

Later, the 2 stations was off the air, a new "New Wave" station (NU) appeared. It concentrated on New Wave too like The One I Love (REM 87), It's A Sin (PSB 87), Need You Tonight (Inxs 88), Shattered Dreams (Johnny Hates Jazz 88), Bizarre Love Triangle (New Order 87) and The Promise (When In Rome 88).

That was the last set of GOOF New Wave songs here. I know there are other songs, but I don't know how and why I changed or evolved into another music genre which is alternative and heavy metal.

And I agree, it was '91 was the end of it mainly because of lack of good New Wave Songs.


Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars.
[/quote]

Yup, and we heard a lot of incredible New Wave music on the radio in the Philippines. I'd like to add the Railway Children, the Chameleons, Xmal Deutschland, Two Minds Crack, the Nobodys, the Go-Betweens, the Wild Swans, the Lotus Eaters, Tuesday Blue, the list goes on & on.

"We'll be as we are
When all the fools who doubt us fade away"
- The Icicle Works

[troy08]

I always think of New Wave as evolving through the course of the 80's. Nothing compared to 1980-1985, but that later half of the 80's still put out some great music. Looking back, it all seemed to die January 1, 1990[:(]

[Nakedprey]

[quote][i]Originally posted by korova1[/i]
<br> Please put on "Lightning Hopkins" or "Fireplace" on Side 2 of "Document" and tell me that album is rock solid!!!
[/quote]

haha "Fireplace" was actually one of like 3 songs I liked from that album.

Time was on my side for so long, 'til it said "so long" to me.

[Nakedprey]

I probably can't give a concise and coherent answer to this since I barely paid any attention to music during the 80s. I didn't catch up on 80s music (which I now love) until the mid 90s really - when I was sick to fucking death of the state of alternative radio.

I was big into music when I was 7, until my parents became Christians in 1981, and I started to feel alienated by all the "sinful" music that existed. It happened around the time that MTV was introduced to the world and it seemed all I could see were these "weird" acts like Devo, Duran Duran, Eurythmics, and then the more trendy sounds of the Go-Gos, Corey Hart, Laura Branigan, etc. (Again, I'm speaking from the point of view of an 8 year old kid) Up until about 1986, I used to hear the terms "new waver" and "headbanger" thrown around a lot in a trendy way and I don't remember having a clear idea of what either term meant (I just thought new waver sounded cooler). I remember towards the late 80s, I heard a lot about Run DMC, Beastie Boys, Prince, Bon Jovi, Michael Jackson. And those artists seemed dramatically different from the other artists I mentioned earlier. Anyways, it wasn't until 1990, when I turned 15 that I got back into music again. It started with bland CCMers like Michael W Smith and Petra. Then I discovered Depeche Mode, U2, Neworder, INXS and Erasure and it all went from there. I remember when I was listening to those artists during that period, it seemed that Bell Biv Devoe, MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, Warrant, Poison, Dee-Lite and that ilk were big. Occasionally I'd hear the other 80s alternative/new wave based bands I just listed. But as I look back, it seemed new wave as a trend definitely disappeared by 1990, even though sparse new wave based electronic acts like Machine in Motion, Cause and Effect, and The Hunger would have semi-hits on the radio.



Time was on my side for so long, 'til it said "so long" to me.

[MonkeyTrousers]

If you define New Wave as a SOUND - which seems pretty dire considering the diversity of "new wave" bands (i.e. The Suburbs do not sound like Bush Tetras as The Police do not sound like Television as The B-52's do not sound like XTC etc) as opposed to an ERA - which it WAS (1977 - 1983 ish - how long can a wave be before it's no longer "new"?) then I have no idea WHAT a defining sonic characteristic of "new wave" would be. Considering all it was was a new wave of bands/artists in the second half of the 70's that broke away from the more bloated conventional fare of the day (i.e. Led Zepplin, B.T.O., The Eagles) and was a return to a more stripped down pop song format. Which may or may not be in thanks to power pop bands like the raspberries, big star and badfinger. If you remember correctly so was punk ala New York Dolls, The Stooges and a lot of "Glam Rock" like T.REX. Like everything else that was once fresh and new it became tired, trite, homogenized and familiar sounding to say the least (read Berlin, Naked Eyes and The Blow Monkeys). It became (dare I generalize) ordinary POP music, which maybe it always was I suppose just wearing more exciting "clothes" for want of a better analogy. When I hear bands like Blur, Pulp and Hot Hot Heat I hear bands influenced by the New Wave Era - not the new wave sound (which of course would be a tad vague).

[zill]

I think video killed the new wave star, with Duran Duran leading the way. A slew of Brit bands broke state-side in 1982 with an incredible number of great songs. Whether it was the music itself or the stylish videos that accompanied them, the mainstream bought it hook, line and sinker. Thrust into the commercial limelight, the music ceased being new or innovative as bands struggled to sustain their initial success. Follow-up efforts by a lot of these bands were hugely disappointing, for example:

ABC – apparently the near perfect Lexicon of Love was the only thing easy as 123
China Crisis – a long time between albums and then Flaunt the Imperfection…they certainly did
Culture Club – should have been named for the track It’s A Miracle, as it was a miracle anyone bought this record
Duran Duran – my theory is that after two stylish records, the guys played a lot of Dungeons and Dragons, resulting in Seven and the Ragged Tiger
Thompson Twins – from Quickstep to two-step with Into the Crap…Gap I mean

Unfortunately, the videos promoted a look and feel that others tried to imitate, that these bands tried to imitate themselves. This was the beginning of the end. Commercial expectations quashed experimentation and the era came to an end.

After building excitement since 1977, new wave climaxed in 1982. It basked in the after-glow in 1983. Smoked a cigarette in 1984. In 1985 it was trying to sleep if not for that annoying wet spot. In the late 80’s there was a brief resurgence but it was never as good or memorable as the first time around.

[hubcity]

Folks,

It seems to me there's always a bunch of garages where unknown and unheralded geniuses are doing interesting things. John Peel managed to consistently feature them on his show from 1967 until last year, and the BBC seems determined to carry on his legacy.

A new wave will always occur when it becomes necessary to combat bloated and/or hollowly insincere genres, and it's the geniuses in the garages that make it happen.

There was a perfect storm in the late seventies and early eighties, when the charts were clogged with classic/southern rock (there's the bloat) and disco (there's the insincerity.)

Now we've got bloated "alternative" and insincere pop (music whose sole purpose is to ape other things that have done well on the charts.)

A perfect storm's a-brewin'.

-Sean
Altrok Radio at <a href="http://www.altrokradio.com">http://www.altrokradio.com</a>
Playing When Posted: Bauhaus, "Spirit"

[Randall Roq]

1982

The beginning of the end. That's when Human League hit with Don't You Want Me? Suddenly every top 40 station was playing "New Wave". KROQ which used to be years ahead of everyone was simply weeks ahead.

KROQ itself was relying way too much on format and the ratings soared. And I who had listened to nothing else for the last 5 years suddenly found myself stuck with DJ's I couldn't stand (Blade, Egil etc).

Everything up until 1982 sounded like nothing that had come before. Most of what came after 82 was an sounded like an attempt to cash in.

It didn't die in '82 but the writing was on the wall. Everyone was crashing the party.

[st arry]

For me during 1985 I started to get disillusioned. Didn't start too badly, but by mid year and the second half British music (which was the New Wave I knew at the time) had changed forever. I don't know if it was the smaller labels being eaten up by bigger ones or whether the creative period had simply just run its course. But in my opinion Duran Duran didn't do a good record after A View To A Kill, neither did Frankie Goes To Hollywood after Welcome To The Pleasuredome or George Michael after Freedom. Yes that's right...I'm concentrating on the charts. [:)] They are the ultimate barometer of what's happening on the music scene - of the general creativity of the moment and what the stations are playing. Look at the charts in Britain in the second half of 85 onwards - how many number ones are just sappy factory pop, unmelodic dance or just novelty records?

1984 was a great year (in Britain anyway, American pop I think was better late 70s to about 1980 British music took over after that). After British music declined by the second half of 85 I think the Italian scene took over - doing good music in 86 and 87 as well as 84 / 85). After that I'm not sure there was much good music anywhere. During 85 I stopped listening to pop music and went onto classical music till the mid 90s when I looked started to look at classic albums of the past. I've never bothered much with 90s music.

[st arry]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Randall Roq[/i]
<br>1982

The beginning of the end. That's when Human League hit with Don't You Want Me? Suddenly every top 40 station was playing "New Wave". KROQ which used to be years ahead of everyone was simply weeks ahead.

KROQ itself was relying way too much on format and the ratings soared. And I who had listened to nothing else for the last 5 years suddenly found myself stuck with DJ's I couldn't stand (Blade, Egil etc).

Everything up until 1982 sounded like nothing that had come before. Most of what came after 82 was an sounded like an attempt to cash in.

It didn't die in '82 but the writing was on the wall. Everyone was crashing the party.


[/quote]

If good music is successful in the charts I think it's a good thing - unless it encouraged bigger labels to buy up the smaller ones and to make everything ultra conservative. But 83 and 84 certainly had alot of good chart music which enabled a wide audience to appreciate the music not just in Britian but around the world. Much better that than records becoming ultra rare collectables that nobody ever heard at the time. I think in the short term the large record sales had an encouraging effect for more creativity. It was only when the hard nosed business people moved in who only saw Pounds and Dollars that things turned bad. But by then maybe the creative period had run its course anyway? By saying everyone was 'crashing in on the party' you remind me of American disco and how by 79 everyone was doing it. I think that fuelled a great final period of creativity for disco than destroyed it. Same really for British New Wave.