I hate big box store but...
I don't understand the concept of buying at a Mom'n'Pop shop to support the local economy when it is usually the same Made in China crap that you get at Walmart. Paying more for the same product at Mom'n'Pops is often a case of prolonging an unsustainable enterprise that isn't willing to change with the times.
Mom'n'Pops have to offer extraordinary service, a unique product selection, an unusual shopping experience, or simply be more convenient than trucking out the the local big box if they are to survive.
Last year I went to a small BBQ specialty store and learned everything I needed to know from a very knowledgable sales person. Then on the weekend Home Depot had the BBQ I wanted on sale for $100 less, plus free assembly, free delivery and a free cover. I didn't hesitate to buy from Home Depot.
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Shop Wal Mart ? Poll Closed . 51% do 49% do not
71 posts
• Page 3 of 5 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
by shovelbum » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:07 am
Reasons to NOT shop at Walmart:
your $$$ is not just diverted from mom and pop, it's also diverted from your local, state, and federal economy. The money goes to the owners of the walmart Corporation. The owners don't allow unions, which may not seem like a bad thing except that Walmart very rarely hires full time employees, which means employees can't qualify for benefits like health insurance, which means that they get government subsidies to help them with that. Which means YOU are paying for WAlmart's employees health care. Think the prices are cheap? Think again when you consider THAT cost.
Also, The $$$ they save by importing items from China not only puts out mom and pop, it also puts out any other local and/or nation-wide labor. Those people end up on welfare. Who's paying for welfare? YOU AND I. This causes a depression in the economy, which causes inflation, which causes you and I to pay in more ways than just the check-out stand at Walmart.
Of the profits made by the owners of Walmart, a portion goes to lobbyists and other politicians pockets in an effort to get the govt. (so far almost always successfully) to help the owners to pay less taxes, etc, so now the govt works for Walmart- not for YOU. Walmart gets the local govt to bend rules about zoning so they can build new supercenters. They convince local govt that it will be GOOD for the local economy (huh?!) and usually the local govt helps pay for the new store!!! There have been cases of Walmarts being built on wetlands, such as in Centralia, WA, where the new store's presence has caused ecological damage to the area and created flooding problems in the city. Who pays for that? The city- NOT Walmart. Who gives the city it's money- YOUR tax dollars.
Compounding these issues is the fact that Chinese workers are slaving away for 15+ hours a day on slave wages and a slave environment; AND the fact that Walmart employees usually have to hold 2 part-time jobs and have NO health insurance (unless it's govt funded); AND that Walmart is known for it's resistence to promoting women to management level positions.
Walmart doesn't give a crap about you, your community, your country, human suffering and/or dignity, equal rights or patriotism.
Did I forget anything?
Shop there if it makes you happy, but just know that the $$$ you save is soaked in misery and probably costing you more than you realize in the long run.
"I'm subversive as hell!" ~Theodor Geisel
your $$$ is not just diverted from mom and pop, it's also diverted from your local, state, and federal economy. The money goes to the owners of the walmart Corporation. The owners don't allow unions, which may not seem like a bad thing except that Walmart very rarely hires full time employees, which means employees can't qualify for benefits like health insurance, which means that they get government subsidies to help them with that. Which means YOU are paying for WAlmart's employees health care. Think the prices are cheap? Think again when you consider THAT cost.
Also, The $$$ they save by importing items from China not only puts out mom and pop, it also puts out any other local and/or nation-wide labor. Those people end up on welfare. Who's paying for welfare? YOU AND I. This causes a depression in the economy, which causes inflation, which causes you and I to pay in more ways than just the check-out stand at Walmart.
Of the profits made by the owners of Walmart, a portion goes to lobbyists and other politicians pockets in an effort to get the govt. (so far almost always successfully) to help the owners to pay less taxes, etc, so now the govt works for Walmart- not for YOU. Walmart gets the local govt to bend rules about zoning so they can build new supercenters. They convince local govt that it will be GOOD for the local economy (huh?!) and usually the local govt helps pay for the new store!!! There have been cases of Walmarts being built on wetlands, such as in Centralia, WA, where the new store's presence has caused ecological damage to the area and created flooding problems in the city. Who pays for that? The city- NOT Walmart. Who gives the city it's money- YOUR tax dollars.
Compounding these issues is the fact that Chinese workers are slaving away for 15+ hours a day on slave wages and a slave environment; AND the fact that Walmart employees usually have to hold 2 part-time jobs and have NO health insurance (unless it's govt funded); AND that Walmart is known for it's resistence to promoting women to management level positions.
Walmart doesn't give a crap about you, your community, your country, human suffering and/or dignity, equal rights or patriotism.
Did I forget anything?
Shop there if it makes you happy, but just know that the $$$ you save is soaked in misery and probably costing you more than you realize in the long run.
"I'm subversive as hell!" ~Theodor Geisel
- shovelbum
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by shovelbum » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:17 am
[quote][i]Originally posted by marvymarv[/i]
<br>Every now and then 'bum comes out with a good post [8]
<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">Own. Rule. All.</a>
[/quote]
That means alot coming from you, Marv! [;)]
"I'm subversive as hell!" ~Theodor Geisel
<br>Every now and then 'bum comes out with a good post [8]
<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">Own. Rule. All.</a>
[/quote]
That means alot coming from you, Marv! [;)]
"I'm subversive as hell!" ~Theodor Geisel
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by WoodlandParkPunk » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:05 am
Wal Mart rules!!! Screw K Mart and Target. K Mart has crap and Target out prices themselves.
"You just pick a chord, go twang, and you've got music." ~ Sid Vicious
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by brock » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:24 am
I'm going to have to disagree with some of your points.[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
<br>Reasons to NOT shop at Walmart:
The money goes to the owners of the walmart Corporation.[/quote]
The owners of Wal-Mart (ie shareholders) are you, me and everyone else with an index fund. Or did you mean only the Walton family?<br>[quote]Walmart very rarely hires full time employees[/quote]No different than mom & pop stores which compete for my $$.
[quote]Also, The $$$ they save by importing items from China not only puts out mom and pop, it also puts out any other local and/or nation-wide labor. Those people end up on welfare. Who's paying for welfare? YOU AND I. This causes a depression in the economy, which causes inflation, which causes you and I to pay in more ways than just the check-out stand at Walmart.[/quote]Does a depression cause inflation? I know the economy is generally cyclical, but I guess I need to brush-up on my economics.
I think some of the local Wal-Mart employees would be on welfare if it weren't for their job.
[quote]Of the profits made by the owners of Walmart, a portion goes to lobbyists and other politicians pockets in an effort to get the govt. (so far almost always successfully) to help the owners to pay less taxes, etc[/quote]
I think this is true of many industries. Wal-Mart's just another player, albeit a big player.
[quote]
Shop there if it makes you happy, but just know that the $$$ you save is soaked in misery and probably costing you more than you realize in the long run.[/quote]The few $$ that I save stay in my non-interest bearing checking account (maybe [i]soaked in misery[/i] is a good description) until the next round of bills (mortgage, child care, utilities, credit card, HELOC, etc.) arrive. Then in April I usually write two checks when taxes are due. If my taxes pay for health insurance for others, so be it. My taxes also pay for police, fire, my kids' education, roads, etc. If Wal-Mart gets a subsidy from me, then they've played the game well. At the end of the day, I guess I really don't care...until the next tax increase.
"I'm subversive as hell!" ~Theodor Geisel
[/quote]
<br>Reasons to NOT shop at Walmart:
The money goes to the owners of the walmart Corporation.[/quote]
The owners of Wal-Mart (ie shareholders) are you, me and everyone else with an index fund. Or did you mean only the Walton family?<br>[quote]Walmart very rarely hires full time employees[/quote]No different than mom & pop stores which compete for my $$.
[quote]Also, The $$$ they save by importing items from China not only puts out mom and pop, it also puts out any other local and/or nation-wide labor. Those people end up on welfare. Who's paying for welfare? YOU AND I. This causes a depression in the economy, which causes inflation, which causes you and I to pay in more ways than just the check-out stand at Walmart.[/quote]Does a depression cause inflation? I know the economy is generally cyclical, but I guess I need to brush-up on my economics.
I think some of the local Wal-Mart employees would be on welfare if it weren't for their job.
[quote]Of the profits made by the owners of Walmart, a portion goes to lobbyists and other politicians pockets in an effort to get the govt. (so far almost always successfully) to help the owners to pay less taxes, etc[/quote]
I think this is true of many industries. Wal-Mart's just another player, albeit a big player.
[quote]
Shop there if it makes you happy, but just know that the $$$ you save is soaked in misery and probably costing you more than you realize in the long run.[/quote]The few $$ that I save stay in my non-interest bearing checking account (maybe [i]soaked in misery[/i] is a good description) until the next round of bills (mortgage, child care, utilities, credit card, HELOC, etc.) arrive. Then in April I usually write two checks when taxes are due. If my taxes pay for health insurance for others, so be it. My taxes also pay for police, fire, my kids' education, roads, etc. If Wal-Mart gets a subsidy from me, then they've played the game well. At the end of the day, I guess I really don't care...until the next tax increase.
"I'm subversive as hell!" ~Theodor Geisel
[/quote]
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by KYYX4ever » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:55 am
I'm glad shovelbum posted all that, b/c it's basically the truth. Go and do some research on WM and you'll see some of their unsavory "business practices" for yourself.
Also, in contrast to to zill's position, the reason I prefer to shop at Mom-n-Pop stores is that their stuff [b]IS[/b] U.S.-made, not Chinese or other slave-labor countries-made. Sometimes you can't avoid foreign goods, but if you can try, why not ? Every little bit does make a differemce.
Also, in contrast to to zill's position, the reason I prefer to shop at Mom-n-Pop stores is that their stuff [b]IS[/b] U.S.-made, not Chinese or other slave-labor countries-made. Sometimes you can't avoid foreign goods, but if you can try, why not ? Every little bit does make a differemce.
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by coop41 » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:13 am
[quote][i]Originally posted by brock[/i]
<br>I'm going to have to disagree with some of your points.[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
<br>Reasons to NOT shop at Walmart:
The money goes to the owners of the walmart Corporation.[/quote]
The owners of Wal-Mart (ie shareholders) are you, me and everyone else with an index fund. Or did you mean only the Walton family?<br>[quote]Walmart very rarely hires full time employees[/quote]No different than mom & pop stores which compete for my $$.
[quote]Also, The $$$ they save by importing items from China not only puts out mom and pop, it also puts out any other local and/or nation-wide labor. Those people end up on welfare. Who's paying for welfare? YOU AND I. This causes a depression in the economy, which causes inflation, which causes you and I to pay in more ways than just the check-out stand at Walmart.[/quote]Does a depression cause inflation? I know the economy is generally cyclical, but I guess I need to brush-up on my economics.
I think some of the local Wal-Mart employees would be on welfare if it weren't for their job.
[quote]Of the profits made by the owners of Walmart, a portion goes to lobbyists and other politicians pockets in an effort to get the govt. (so far almost always successfully) to help the owners to pay less taxes, etc[/quote]
I think this is true of many industries. Wal-Mart's just another player, albeit a big player.
[quote]
Shop there if it makes you happy, but just know that the $$$ you save is soaked in misery and probably costing you more than you realize in the long run.[/quote]The few $$ that I save stay in my non-interest bearing checking account (maybe [i]soaked in misery[/i] is a good description) until the next round of bills (mortgage, child care, utilities, credit card, HELOC, etc.) arrive. Then in April I usually write two checks when taxes are due. If my taxes pay for health insurance for others, so be it. My taxes also pay for police, fire, my kids' education, roads, etc. If Wal-Mart gets a subsidy from me, then they've played the game well. At the end of the day, I guess I really don't care...until the next tax increase.
[/quote]
[/quote]
I have to agree.
In addition, while shovelbum states some valid points, some are also outdated, incorrect or slanted to make a point (A political one no doubt). I suppose I could make the point that Wal Mart pay averages [i]twice[/i] the minimum wage, and while true, paints no more clear picture than the above "horror story". I'm also guessing that they create a couple more jobs than "Mom and Pop" (don't they only hire relatives anyway?). Also, are there really that many "Mom and Pop" grocery stores (or clothing stores or office supply stores or paint stores or CD stores) out there? (What? You can get all that in [i]One[/i] place AND at the lowest price?) Or is it more likely Wal Mart is competing with unionized grocery store chains who pay inflated wages and pass along the higher prices to the consumer and are probably guilty of many of the same sins as Wal Mart (or many other large companies)? I'd reckon to say that Americans speak with their wallets, and judging by the success of Wal Mart, most of the bashing is political fluff.
Eight 6 had probably the best response.
<br>I'm going to have to disagree with some of your points.[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
<br>Reasons to NOT shop at Walmart:
The money goes to the owners of the walmart Corporation.[/quote]
The owners of Wal-Mart (ie shareholders) are you, me and everyone else with an index fund. Or did you mean only the Walton family?<br>[quote]Walmart very rarely hires full time employees[/quote]No different than mom & pop stores which compete for my $$.
[quote]Also, The $$$ they save by importing items from China not only puts out mom and pop, it also puts out any other local and/or nation-wide labor. Those people end up on welfare. Who's paying for welfare? YOU AND I. This causes a depression in the economy, which causes inflation, which causes you and I to pay in more ways than just the check-out stand at Walmart.[/quote]Does a depression cause inflation? I know the economy is generally cyclical, but I guess I need to brush-up on my economics.
I think some of the local Wal-Mart employees would be on welfare if it weren't for their job.
[quote]Of the profits made by the owners of Walmart, a portion goes to lobbyists and other politicians pockets in an effort to get the govt. (so far almost always successfully) to help the owners to pay less taxes, etc[/quote]
I think this is true of many industries. Wal-Mart's just another player, albeit a big player.
[quote]
Shop there if it makes you happy, but just know that the $$$ you save is soaked in misery and probably costing you more than you realize in the long run.[/quote]The few $$ that I save stay in my non-interest bearing checking account (maybe [i]soaked in misery[/i] is a good description) until the next round of bills (mortgage, child care, utilities, credit card, HELOC, etc.) arrive. Then in April I usually write two checks when taxes are due. If my taxes pay for health insurance for others, so be it. My taxes also pay for police, fire, my kids' education, roads, etc. If Wal-Mart gets a subsidy from me, then they've played the game well. At the end of the day, I guess I really don't care...until the next tax increase.
[/quote]
[/quote]
I have to agree.
In addition, while shovelbum states some valid points, some are also outdated, incorrect or slanted to make a point (A political one no doubt). I suppose I could make the point that Wal Mart pay averages [i]twice[/i] the minimum wage, and while true, paints no more clear picture than the above "horror story". I'm also guessing that they create a couple more jobs than "Mom and Pop" (don't they only hire relatives anyway?). Also, are there really that many "Mom and Pop" grocery stores (or clothing stores or office supply stores or paint stores or CD stores) out there? (What? You can get all that in [i]One[/i] place AND at the lowest price?) Or is it more likely Wal Mart is competing with unionized grocery store chains who pay inflated wages and pass along the higher prices to the consumer and are probably guilty of many of the same sins as Wal Mart (or many other large companies)? I'd reckon to say that Americans speak with their wallets, and judging by the success of Wal Mart, most of the bashing is political fluff.
Eight 6 had probably the best response.
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by shovelbum » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:17 am
[quote][i]Originally posted by eight6[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
Did I forget anything?
[/quote]
A list of retail stores selling "Made In The U.S.A." items.
[/quote]
Gee, eight6, since the list is so important to you, maybe that could be YOUR homework assignment. [;)]
"I'm subversive as hell!" ~Theodor Geisel
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
Did I forget anything?
[/quote]
A list of retail stores selling "Made In The U.S.A." items.
[/quote]
Gee, eight6, since the list is so important to you, maybe that could be YOUR homework assignment. [;)]
"I'm subversive as hell!" ~Theodor Geisel
- shovelbum
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by marie3 » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:44 am
I try and shop local as much as I can. But it is hard because so many places are gone because of Target, Wal-Mart, Costco, ect.
When my son was born 15 years ago, I ONLY bought him clothes made in the U.S.A. As time passed, it became harder and harder to do so. Now it is impossible.
When my son was born 15 years ago, I ONLY bought him clothes made in the U.S.A. As time passed, it became harder and harder to do so. Now it is impossible.
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by eight6 » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:20 pm
[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by eight6[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
Did I forget anything?
[/quote]
A list of retail stores selling "Made In The U.S.A." items.
[/quote]
Gee, eight6, since the list is so important to you, maybe that could be YOUR homework assignment. [;)]
"I'm subversive as hell!" ~Theodor Geisel
[/quote]
I guess I'll have to since you obviously didn't do yours.
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by eight6[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
Did I forget anything?
[/quote]
A list of retail stores selling "Made In The U.S.A." items.
[/quote]
Gee, eight6, since the list is so important to you, maybe that could be YOUR homework assignment. [;)]
"I'm subversive as hell!" ~Theodor Geisel
[/quote]
I guess I'll have to since you obviously didn't do yours.
-
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by MARV » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:04 pm
[quote][i]Originally posted by marie3[/i]
<br>When my son was born 15 years ago, I ONLY bought him clothes made in the U.S.A. As time passed, it became harder and harder to do so. Now it is impossible.[/quote]
It's impossible to get them made in the USA. Wages are so high that in order to be competitive - hell, in order to be in BUSINESS - you have to go overseas. Alot of domestic factories no longer exist. Certain categories like denim have a pretty good foothold here still. But you'll pay a premium for it.
Value is a huge, huge selling point in the retail landscape if the proliferation of mass market discount chains are any proof. Because of a free market system or contributing to a free market system, Coop has it right when he says Americans speak with their wallets. This is the reality of our shopping expectations.
<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">Own. Rule. All.</a>
<br>When my son was born 15 years ago, I ONLY bought him clothes made in the U.S.A. As time passed, it became harder and harder to do so. Now it is impossible.[/quote]
It's impossible to get them made in the USA. Wages are so high that in order to be competitive - hell, in order to be in BUSINESS - you have to go overseas. Alot of domestic factories no longer exist. Certain categories like denim have a pretty good foothold here still. But you'll pay a premium for it.
Value is a huge, huge selling point in the retail landscape if the proliferation of mass market discount chains are any proof. Because of a free market system or contributing to a free market system, Coop has it right when he says Americans speak with their wallets. This is the reality of our shopping expectations.
<a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/cetaceans/index.cfm">Own. Rule. All.</a>
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by shovelbum » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:33 pm
[quote][i]Originally posted by eight6[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by eight6[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
Did I forget anything?
[/quote]
A list of retail stores selling "Made In The U.S.A." items.
[/quote]
Gee, eight6, since the list is so important to you, maybe that could be YOUR homework assignment. [;)]
"I'm subversive as hell!" ~Theodor Geisel
[/quote]
I guess I'll have to since you obviously didn't do yours.
[/quote]
eight6, you are so boring. You never contribute valid points with supporting evidence. All you do is criticize everyone and anyone with supposedly witty little slurs that in most cases, such as this, don't make any sense and aren't even amusing. I don't even think you have a political or moral preference; you merely choose to make snide critical comments on whatever conveniently makes you sound witty.
[here is your space for a witty come-back combined with a quip that should insult me]
[here is a space for your quip about the space I already offered]
Is this mask of superiority you flaunt for us nothing but a cover-up for some internal deficiency you perceive within yourself?
[here is a space for you to make a quip about me attempting to psycho-analyze you and/or the fact that you are OBVIOUSLY superior]
Astound us- don't be so predictable.
I don't always get along with the other members of this site but I have to hand it to them (Blir, Marv, etc), at least when they disagree with me they can usually hold an intelligent debate supported by facts and evidence. They actually think about their responses and want people to know WHY they feel the way they do because they know that is the only way to possibly get people to understand their views. In other words, they have a motive and a point.
So what's yours, other than being insulting and pretentious at any given opportunity?
[space for more quips regarding my own deficiencies, including jokes at my expense, blah blah blah......]
Have fun with this one. I know you always do.
*steps off soap-box*
"I'm subversive as hell!" ~Theodor Geisel
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by eight6[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
Did I forget anything?
[/quote]
A list of retail stores selling "Made In The U.S.A." items.
[/quote]
Gee, eight6, since the list is so important to you, maybe that could be YOUR homework assignment. [;)]
"I'm subversive as hell!" ~Theodor Geisel
[/quote]
I guess I'll have to since you obviously didn't do yours.
[/quote]
eight6, you are so boring. You never contribute valid points with supporting evidence. All you do is criticize everyone and anyone with supposedly witty little slurs that in most cases, such as this, don't make any sense and aren't even amusing. I don't even think you have a political or moral preference; you merely choose to make snide critical comments on whatever conveniently makes you sound witty.
[here is your space for a witty come-back combined with a quip that should insult me]
[here is a space for your quip about the space I already offered]
Is this mask of superiority you flaunt for us nothing but a cover-up for some internal deficiency you perceive within yourself?
[here is a space for you to make a quip about me attempting to psycho-analyze you and/or the fact that you are OBVIOUSLY superior]
Astound us- don't be so predictable.
I don't always get along with the other members of this site but I have to hand it to them (Blir, Marv, etc), at least when they disagree with me they can usually hold an intelligent debate supported by facts and evidence. They actually think about their responses and want people to know WHY they feel the way they do because they know that is the only way to possibly get people to understand their views. In other words, they have a motive and a point.
So what's yours, other than being insulting and pretentious at any given opportunity?
[space for more quips regarding my own deficiencies, including jokes at my expense, blah blah blah......]
Have fun with this one. I know you always do.
*steps off soap-box*
"I'm subversive as hell!" ~Theodor Geisel
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