Another tax rebate check from W.

[Frau_Blucher]

I vote for change. I don't know what the hell we changing from or changing to, but Changes sounds cool...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEaS-K3j3M8

[tileboy]

I'll take MY hard earned money back at any time and in any amount. If anyone doesn't want their refund check they can send it to me.

[SallyLightfoot]

[quote][i]Originally posted by tileboy[/i]
<br>I'll take MY hard earned money back at any time and in any amount. If anyone doesn't want their refund check they can send it to me.
[/quote]
The problem is that they are not exactly returning your money. They are spending your tax dollars and borrowing money from the world markets to give you a rebate.

The money the government spends on our rebate checks (plus interest) will be paid back to the bond holders over time, using our future tax dollars. Bottom line: Enjoy that rebate check, because along with all of the other unchecked govt. spending, we'll be paying it off for years to come.

[MARV]

It almost makes you want to give it back but it's doubtful it'll go where it's most needed. All this rebate money is is another distraction from the country's serious debt. The sad irony is that it increases that debt. And truthfully, I doubt most people will use it to help pay off their own personal debt.

<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/video">Own. Rule. All. Limited Engagement.</a>

[SallyLightfoot]

[quote][i]Originally posted by coop41[/i]<br>
The tax rebates are a short term (but maybe necessary) solution, I'd hate for the states to get it as it's my opinion they are not the best at handling money.
[/quote]
Precisely. The idea behind giving the money to the states is to keep local projects and services funded-- instead of letting these public works projects to a halt (or forcing the states to raise taxes). It can add up to quite a few jobs. States probably aren't great at handling money, but the idea is to ensure the money is spent (i.e. "blown") and keep it in circulation.

[shovelbum]

[quote][i]Originally posted by marie3[/i]
<br>That rebate check wouldn't do much good here on Long Island. If you make under $85,000.00 a year you wouldn't be able to survive. So many of us wouldn't be eligible for this. And believe me, if you are making $100,000.00 a year here, that's not enough for more then your bills.
[/quote]

Same problem here in Charleston, SC, Marie.

Every third house in my neighborhood is for sale right now, and they have been for a minimum of a year. People around here are trying to dump their bad mortgages before they foreclose. I'm sooo glad I didn't let myself get talked into an ARM.

"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal." ~Robert Heinlein

[Randall Roq]

$1600?!!!

MY PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED!!!!!

[coop41]

[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by marie3[/i]
<br>That rebate check wouldn't do much good here on Long Island. If you make under $85,000.00 a year you wouldn't be able to survive. So many of us wouldn't be eligible for this. And believe me, if you are making $100,000.00 a year here, that's not enough for more then your bills.
[/quote]

Same problem here in Charleston, SC, Marie.

Every third house in my neighborhood is for sale right now, and they have been for a minimum of a year. People around here are trying to dump their bad mortgages before they foreclose. I'm sooo glad I didn't let myself get talked into an ARM.

"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal." ~Robert Heinlein
[/quote]


Surely, you are kidding, right? ARM's are the reason for foreclosure? Good grief, it kills me when people believe and repeat something they hear regardless if it's based on fact or not.

[MARV]

ARMs are an excellent way to be able to lower your principal balance. Let's say you start with a $3000 principal and interest payment but refi to an ARM and wind up with a $2700 monthly payment. If you continue to make the $3000 monthly payment, over the course of a five year ARM, you'll have paid down an additional $18,000. Make your money work smarter for you. Or if you plan to stay in that house less than five years, the lower monthly payment option is definitely the better way to go.

The "problem" with ARMs is that many people who took them out didn't see beyond the introductory rate expiration date and that's no one's fault but their own. If you ask me, alot of people bought houses who had no business doing so.

<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/video">Own. Rule. All. Limited Engagement.</a>

[KYYX4ever]

What marv said in his second paragraph, I agree with. "[i][Too many] people who bought houses had no business doing so[/i]". I mean, come on. Being able to buy a house with NO down payment ? Tiny little monthly mortgage payments ? Who was advising these people ? And that's the problem. Unscrupulous mortgage lenders trying to cash in on people's lack of education, that's who. Add to that the average American consumer's conspicuous consumption, spend-like-there's-no-tomorrow-because-it-can-just-be-put-on-the-credit-cards, and it's a recipe for trouble.
Coop, what I think shovelbum was saying was not that ARMs [i]caused[/i] foreclosures, but that their widespread use and abuse contributed to the foreclosure crisis today. That's what I've been reading, anyway. Too many people got talked into ARMs with little or no clue about the "expiration date" on those fabulous introductory rates, and now those people are hurting. It's their own fault for not fully researching the financial aspects on home ownership. Although it seems to me that even if one never researched, one should've been able to see that no down payment & a "killer" rate would NOT be advantageous in the long run. Many folks just have no clue about economics, and were easily duped. Should they be bailed out ? I don't know the answer to that. I'm just of ther opinion that ARMs did not help matters.

p.s. marv, a $3,000 monthly payment ? That's insane![:0] Is that a typical mortgage in other parts of the States, where the cost of living is higher ?

[KYYX4ever]

never mind on my above p.s. I reread this thread and saw marie's comment about wages on Long Island and duh! Of course the cost of living is much higher over there. Dayum! It's far, far lower here, in general, although it's kind of unbalanced.

[coop41]

Unfortunately, the press has made ridiculous statements that have little or no basis in fact and seem to be repeated endlessly by people as shovelbum has done.
First, some important facts:
The headline screams [b]Foreclosures Up 75%!!!![/b] yet still, the number of homes in foreclosure is just over 1%.

ARM products have been around for a long time and have been through many up and down cycles. A lot of people have used ARM's to buy homes both for wise financially strategic methods and for cost saving measures.

Are things bad? The worst I've seen in the 24 years I have been doing this. But not because of ARM's

The Housing industry and Mortgage industry have fueled the economy for some time, even being credited for keeping us out of recession earlier this decade. Consumers demanded less money down and less documentation and the credit markets foolishly agreed. Wall Street had an insatiable desire for mortgages, mortgage companies couldn't keep up and every yahoo in the world became a mortgage loan officer.
Although there were many unscrupulous mortgage loan officers, getting people in on ARM's was not part of their evil plan. Sub-prime mortgages and having the consumers pay exorbinant fees, many undisclosed, or outright loan fraud by inflating income or bank account figures was much more likely.
I just don't buy the fact that a new homeowner is ignorant to the fact they had an ARM and are completely unaware of when it changes, Besides, the rates are so damn low right now, it is likely they could refinance to a similar, if not lower rate.

In my opinion, the current market conditions are a product of consumer greed (Hey- let's buy an investment property ...or let's take out all of our equity and buy those jet skis we always wanted!) and corporate greed (mortgage companies, REALTORS and Wall Street).


As far as bailing out people, let's look at a typical bail out:

Mr. and Mrs. Jones have poor credit as they continually are behind on their bills and have a total disregard for credit. In other words, a normal person wouldn't lend them $20 because they doubt they will ever see the money again. Realtor checks their pulse and sells them a home they cannot afford. Mortgage Company eagerly gives them a loan at a high interest rate, no money (or little money) down on the guess that they will struggle to make their payments but the market will keep appreciating and they will ultimately sell their home. Market turns, buyer stops making payment, note holder takes 6-12 months to foreclose (and believe me, this number will increase) so buyer with poor credit, who hasn't made payments in who knows how long, lives rent free until the home is foreclosed upon, and we are thinking of bailing them out? So the question is, was it the mortgage company's fault? Yes! Was it the Realtors fault? Yes! Was it the homebuyers fault? You bet!!!!!

It's a mighty fine mess we have created, some areas of the country quite a bit more than others (California, Arizona, Nevada).

Recent tightening in mortgage guidelines, an over-reaction to current market conditions, has had a dramatic impact, most of which the general public hasn't seen or heard about yet. The next time you go to buy a home or refinance your current home, you might be surprised.

[birdmadgirl]

[quote][i]Originally posted by coop41[/i]
In my opinion, the current market conditions are a product of consumer greed (Hey- let's buy an investment property ...or let's take out all of our equity and buy those jet skis we always wanted!) and corporate greed (mortgage companies, REALTORS and Wall Street).
[/quote]

I agree. I deal with real estate agents everyday and hear quite a bit of complaining. They complain they're starving because houses aren't selling, and in the next breath, they tell me they have 4 and 5 houses each. They thought they could ride the housing boom forever, I guess, and snapped up houses like crazy. Some of them thought they were going to become house flippers and get rich that way. I think a few of them watched too much TLC...

They complain that they can't pay their bills, yet when I call them for payment, most are on the lake in their new boats, in Mexico on vacation or about to head to Europe. People's priorities are whack.

[shovelbum]

[quote][i]Originally posted by coop41[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by shovelbum[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by marie3[/i]
<br>That rebate check wouldn't do much good here on Long Island. If you make under $85,000.00 a year you wouldn't be able to survive. So many of us wouldn't be eligible for this. And believe me, if you are making $100,000.00 a year here, that's not enough for more then your bills.
[/quote]

Same problem here in Charleston, SC, Marie.

Every third house in my neighborhood is for sale right now, and they have been for a minimum of a year. People around here are trying to dump their bad mortgages before they foreclose. I'm sooo glad I didn't let myself get talked into an ARM.

"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal." ~Robert Heinlein
[/quote]


Surely, you are kidding, right? ARM's are the reason for foreclosure? Good grief, it kills me when people believe and repeat something they hear regardless if it's based on fact or not.
[/quote]

Coop, I never said that ARMs are the reason for foreclosure. All I'm saying is that after having talked to many of my neighbors, I have come to understand that many of them got ARMs and made bad judgments on their loans. Now they can't handle the rise in their mortgage payments and are having to dump their homes. Problem is the market in this area is flooded with homes for sale, so we're seeing foreclosures everywhere.

"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal." ~Robert Heinlein

[MARV]

[quote][i]Originally posted by coop41[/i]
<br>The Housing industry and Mortgage industry have fueled the economy for some time, even being credited for keeping us out of recession earlier this decade. Consumers demanded less money down and less documentation and the credit markets foolishly agreed.....In my opinion, the current market conditions are a product of consumer greed (Hey- let's buy an investment property ...or let's take out all of our equity and buy those jet skis we always wanted!) and corporate greed (mortgage companies, REALTORS and Wall Street).[/quote]

This is consistent with what I think: if the homeowners are going to see relief, then the banks that had to close down should have seen relief as well. Not.

[quote]I just don't buy the fact that a new homeowner is ignorant to the fact they had an ARM and are completely unaware of when it changes.[/quote]

I can tell you that as a part time yahoo loan officer, I have seen people's eyes glaze over when I told them that the rate is only good for three or five years and that it will adjust after that. There are those that just don't want to hear it. Like I said before, they're incapable or unwilling of seeing that far down the road.

[quote]As far as bailing out people, let's look at a typical bail out:

Mr. and Mrs. Jones have poor credit as they continually are behind on their bills and have a total disregard for credit. In other words, a normal person wouldn't lend them $20 because they doubt they will ever see the money again. Realtor checks their pulse and sells them a home they cannot afford. Mortgage Company eagerly gives them a loan at a high interest rate, no money (or little money) down on the guess that they will struggle to make their payments but the market will keep appreciating and they will ultimately sell their home. Market turns, buyer stops making payment, note holder takes 6-12 months to foreclose (and believe me, this number will increase) so buyer with poor credit, who hasn't made payments in who knows how long, lives rent free until the home is foreclosed upon, and we are thinking of bailing them out?[/quote]

I say leave them. They're on their own. But the government's usually pretty good at telling taxpayers to support the ignorant.

Coop, what do you think of the talk to raise where a jumbo mortgage starts? Part of the same plan to make it easier to get into home ownership?

<a href="http://marvymarv.multiply.com/video">Own. Rule. All. Limited Engagement.</a>