When did New Wave DIE?

[korova1]

Here we are at home watching our 16 month old and he is taking a nap so I will write something quickly so bear with me... I'd agree, mid 80's was the end of the genre as a whole. For me, I always had a side interest in punk and harder edged stuff so I would be guessing as to the actual year New Wave croaked, but I'd say the good New Wave disappeared or became bloated and caved in on itself in 1986 - mid 87. By 1988 and Ministry's "Land of Rape and Honey", new wave was completely R.I.P. for me.
In my opinion, most of the early 80's New Wavers either got extremely popular on crappy albums after that, and/or then they cashed in on the craze (Simple Minds, Billy Idol, Talking Heads, Psyche Furs, Flock of Seagulls, Spandau Ballet, OMD, INXS, Violent Femmes, Thompson Twins, Duran Duran split into camps, etc.,). Then all the new marketed commercial new wave bands all began to really SUCK, nobody bought it and the scene died off in late 87. OVERPRODUCTION was quite popular at the time, but not with me!!! Really shitty songs started to creep into mainstream playlists, giving New Wave a bad name for everyone. "Everybody Wang Chung Tonight" or "Some Like It Hot" anyone??
Where I lived darker was considered better. Bauhaus and Joy Division (both of which I'd heard of long after they were defunct)were gathering alot of re-interest from the DJ's on college radio... and the club playlists started to get alot darker around this time. To give perspective on the times changing, looking at a high school dance playlist we DJ'ed in 1986 we played "Nemesis", "Dig It", "She Sells Sanctuary", "Temple Of Love", "Let's Go To Bed", "Love Will Tear Us Apart", "Everyday is Halloween", "World Destruction", "Love Missile F-111 (or whatver it is)", and a bunch of other poppier stuff from Echo, Adam Ant, etc... Industrial was becoming more and more popular underground and I think it had alot to do with the end of the happier, poppier New Wave music. If I remember correctly 86-87 is the dividing-line year for alot of new wavers, they either liked the new over produced poppy stuff that was coming out in droves or they hated it and liked the harder edged stuff. I was starting to hate what was once called "New Wave", it just didn't evolve very well, and during that time if it went mainstream I hated it. So with electronic music I drew the line at Men Without Hats and started checking out Cabaret Voltaire, and Neubauten.
Most people's tastes began to change around 1986, either with Rap, hair bands, or harder edged music. I went back to the latter considering Sonic Youth, Love and Rockets, Jesus and Mary Chain, and Husker Du were making killer albums during those years and the New Wavers weren't!!! There was also alot of people getting more interested in the Velvet Underground at this time, "VU" was released and it started a whole new interest in that band. It was kind of bittersweet for me because after hearing "Hatful of Hollow", "Let It Be", "Psychocandy" and "EVOL" I knew that music was changing in a big big way because there was alot of killer stuff coming out in England and indie U.S. scenes. I truly missed the old days (in the earlier 80's) when my older brother would bring home the latest U2, OMD, New Order, or Duran 12 inch single because that stuff meant so much to me growing up, but I started going further and further underground around this time for stuff to listen to. Then I fell in love with probably my all time favorite band Sonic Youth around this time!!!
I remember The Cure, Depeche, Siouxsie, Echo, and New Order (God how I love them) were extremely reliable around this time and saw them all in concert in the summer of 1987... they were the last of the big New Waver's to stand true to the end of the 80's... (if you consider them NW!) Most of them were just starting to get popular in 1986 with most of the kiddies. 1987 was the end of really GOOD consisten New Wave music for me... and when U2 took over Springsteen's job (making stadium friendly "American" music, which was a HUGE disappointment for me) and REM started to suck around that time... I personally hate REM's "Document" with a passion (but I also hate "Joshua Tree") I started to look elsewhere. Please put on "Lightning Hopkins" or "Fireplace" on Side 2 of "Document" and tell me that album is rock solid!!! I guess I've just grown to hate over-production, probably because of 1987.
Anyway, I am getting off the path, when Run DMC put out the ground breaking "Raising Hell" album... and the Beasties came along, it was another nail in the coffin for the New Wave artists and their kin.... I might have picked up a few NW-related releases in the late 80's but it just wasn't the same. Figures on the Beach? c'mon! I can probably count the good NW related stuff on two hands after 1987. After mid 80's the music was all over the place and mainstream MTV culture went towards mainstream music, rap, and the hair bands! (Hey, didn't Gene Love Jezebel and the Cult become one of them?) Whooo!!! As for me, there were never better years than 1980-86 for sheer quality and variety in music (why would I be on this post if it wasn't?), but as usual, music scenes only last that long or less, then things change.... Well, my kid is up - hope I made sense, I was writing in a hurry, now I gots to run!

[react010]

Great reply korova1 !! It sums it all up i think...(and believe me, it didn't seem like you wrote this in a hurry).
Personally i sometimes DO like over-production if it is done well, for example Marc Almond's (Soft-Cell) "Enchanted" album was totally over-produced, but it's one of my all time favorite albums (amongst the other 1000 or so). For me the end of New-Wave was around the time when Siouxsie & The Banshees released "Kiss Them For me" as a single. Totally loved that track to death, but whem it didn't do well in the charts...for me that was a kinda 'this is the end' feeling.

[KYYX4ever]

[quote][i]Originally posted by korova1[/i]
<br> [b]OVERPRODUCTION[/b] was quite popular at the time, but not with me!!! Really shitty songs started to creep into mainstream playlists, giving New Wave a bad name for everyone. "Some Like It Hot" anyone??

&
[b]Industrial[/b] was becoming more and more popular underground and I think it had alot to do with the end of the happier, poppier New Wave music. If I remember correctly 86-87 is the dividing-line year for alot of new wavers, they either liked the new over produced poppy stuff that was coming out in droves or they hated it and liked the harder edged stuff.
[/quote]

that's what happened to me.
I started college in late summer of '86, and to me, even tho I still listened to a lot of my old New Wave, it had died by then. One thing that was coming down the turnpike that I loved was early Industrial....Skinny Puppy, Severed Heads, Neubaten, etc. (Not Ministry, tho; couldn't stand their new sound...blech!). Anyway, your point resonated with me. In '86, music got to be REALLY overproduced and that was a big turn-off, to me.

[react010]

Great reply korova1 !! It sums it all up i think...(and believe me, it didn't seem like you wrote this in a hurry).
Personally i sometimes DO like over-production if it is done well, for example Marc Almond's (Soft-Cell) "Enchanted" album was totally over-produced, but it's one of my all time favorite albums (amongst the other 1000 or so). For me the end of New-Wave was around the time when Siouxsie & The Banshees released "Kiss Them For me" as a single. Totally loved that track to death, but whem it didn't do well in the charts...for me that was a kinda 'this is the end' feeling.

[react010]

Sorry for the double post, sometimes when you hit the back button your post to a topic reloads and posts a second time.

[newwavepopman]

I voted on the year 1991 because right after 1991 MTV stopped showing music videos by artists that were still recording New Wave music,and also because that was the year that most radio stations that had a 24 hour New Wave format such as WLIR-WDRE completely changed their format to what I call the worst piece of music in the history of rock and roll,that being Grunge and Alternative.Right before 1992 ended,I stopped hearing alot of synthpop and started hearing more and more of those noise Grunge and Alternative acts on the radio like Nirvana,and whoever else was starting to make an impact back at that time.

After then music was just never the same again.

[newwavepopman]

The last of the great New Wavers to me and don't forget any of these as they continued doing stuff in the early 90's were the following.

Stan Ridgeway(His solo material really didn't start to change until after his album Partyball,not counting the greatest hits collection after Partyball.Songs such as I Wanna Be A Boss,The Gumbo Man,all retained that Wall Of Voodoo New Wave sound from years gone by and this was in 1991.Even on his Mosquitos album from 1989 Stan was still going at it,with songs like Goin' Southbound,Calling Out TO Carol(A personal favorite of mine by Stan)but by Black Diamond his style went in a whole new different direction with more of a Folk and Jazz style,but then in 2002 he came back and went back to his New Wave roots with another great album in Holiday In Dirt.

The Katydids-Most don't even remember this group today,let alone back in 1990,which was when their first album was released and produced by Nick Lowe and what a great album this was.They had that Bangles sound down pat.Although they recorded a second album in 1991 it just wasn't as good as their first album.But it was good enough that I still enjoyed it.

Another great Bangles sounding New Wave group that continued for awhile into the early 90's and continued with the same style that they were always known for was the band Voice Of The Beehive.Too bad they broke up right after their 3rd CD though.Although the 3rd one was their weakest one.Their second album moves even more than their first,well for me it does anyway.Their first album came out around 1988 with I Walk The Earth and I Say Nothing.

Don't get me wrong I love the first one too,but the second album was still even stronger and the material was even better.

They Might Be Giants-The first album I really discovered by them was their Flood album from 1990,but then I went back on all of their previous albums,and found that I missed alot of great albums that I hadn't discovered until I bought Flood.
When In Rome-Nobody can really say that their hit The Promise wasn't a New Wave song,and this was still in the late 80's mind you.

If I think long and hard I probably can come up with some more good artists from the late 80's and early 90's that was still making New Wave music.Here are some more off the top of my head.

Underworld-Late 88 to 89 their first two Sire albums were New Wave,and I just love their song Stand Up.
Fine Young Cannibals-Their second album with She Drives Me Crazy from 89 is still considered to be a real New Wave classic by many.
Screaming Blue Messiahs carried on tradition with I Wannna Be A Flintstone back in 1987 or so.
Peter Schilling was still going at it in 89 with what I call my favorite hit of his with his great World Of Lust And Crime.
Royal Crescent Mob in 89 were rolling aloing with Spin The World and their great video from that album Na Na Na Na Na Na.

That is my take on everything thanks.

[tastyorange]

New Wave to me was from the end of 1978 (Video Killed the Radio Star) till about 1985 (Burning Flame)...there was some good stuff until the late 80's but it wasn't really New Wave anymore.
New Wave is oh so hard to describe.

[golfer]

I was thinking that maybe I had forgotten something with these mentions of Gino Vanelli.downloaded some listened to it....I remember it now.......UTTER CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!![xx(]

[popreactor]

When U2,REM,INXS were established as mainstream artist. Mid 80's.
One of the last new wave songs for me was "Voyage Voyage" by Desireless

[guyinsf]

I think NW was on the decline when all the headbanging heavy metal hair bands began to dominate MTV around 1986, with Motley Crue, Bon Jovi, Guns and Roses, Poison, etc. Some of these hair bands were good, most were a total joke like Poison.

[JohnPaulGeorgeRingo]

[quote][i]Originally posted by knowitallrecs[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by dearly beloved[/i]
<br>[quote][i]Originally posted by knowitallrecs[/i]
<br>New Wave never died; it simply evolved.

To say that it perished only gives validity to the claims of its critics, who falsely claimed that the genre had no longevity. I refuse to give them the satisfaction or bookmark the style's lifespan between the good and bad years of my life or when a particular "sound" from its variety of flavors disappeared from radio or MTV. New Wave icons such as Echo & the Bunnymen, Depeche Mode, Erasure, the Cure, Simple Minds, the Lotus Eaters, the Church, Lloyd Cole, the Ocean Blue, among numerous others, continued to release albums after any so-called expiration date. Furthermore, young groups like Mono In VCF, Rialto, Franz Ferdinand, Bloc Party, the Pin-Up Girls,
Kaiser Chiefs, and the Killers can be played alongside "Rock of the '80s" and fool numerous people who didn't know they were new acts. (And it does work, too.)

New Wave, like heavy metal and hip-hop, simply absorbed more textures as the years progressed, adopting the latest technology, instrumentation, and recording techniques.

Dead? Only in the minds of people who refuse to accept change.

Dead? Only in the minds of critics who hated it in the first place.

Dead? Only in the minds of record companies who never understood it and wanted the country to move on.

New Wave is alive and well.

Michael Sutton
Staff Writer: The All-Music Guide
[/quote]

I can appreciate the tenets you employ in defense of the music we all love, knowitallrecs.

You're right that New Wave can never die in that there are forums like the NWOutpost and scads of young bands that (for the most part) adequately ape the genre. But yeah, the New Wave most of us knew some 20 odd years ago is dead. Not because it's a facet of modern music that had no depth, longevity or viability, but rather because all those original ideas and inspirations could only have happened at that time, demanding relevance, defining a generation as a reaction to things concurrent to that day.
Just as England's Punk movement was a reaction to stodgy old rock dinosaurs, or as grunge was a reaction to hair metal pretense.

As it's harshest critics blasted it as pre-packaged non-music, the joke was on them. New Wave could only have happened at the time that it did. It smeared lipstick on the dour countenenace of Post-Punk. It mirrored early eighties world excess and spat it right back in our faces. We loved NW for it....and still do.

Long live New Wave.
[/quote]

But wasn't the whole point of New Wave was to be progressive? To say that the genre only existed within a period of time, to me, goes against the genre's original purpose - to look into the future instead of being shackled by the past. It was supposed to evolve and not remain the same. Of course, New Wave in 2005 is not going to sound like New Wave in 1980. Your argument is well articulated, but I refuse to believe that New Wave could've only happened during a specific period. History repeats itself, socially and politically, and youths have an inherent need to rebel and discover their own individuality. Franz Ferdinand, the Pin-Up Girls, and Bloc Party are providing the same "fuck you" statements to rap-metal and corporate slush that Depeche Mode, Echo & the Bunnymen, and the Cure did in the '80s. You can look at New Wave as a cultural phenomenon that lasted from the late '70s to the early '80s, but there's dramatic stylistic growth in those years, too. The New Wave of 1977 was radically different from the New Wave of 1982. Shouldn't the New Wave of 1982 not be called New Wave then since it wasn't the same as the New Wave of 1977, which was more punk and certainly nowhere near as synth-based? If you look at it objectively instead of, "Oh, it ended in 1983 because I didn't like how it sounded anymore," you will see that the evolution of the genre had been in place the whole time and continued to the present time. To me, New Wave is an artform and not an artifact. I find it ironic that many people consider the lifespan of New Wave defined by the years of its most commercial success, the very thing that the genre was supposed to be against. (In the Philippines, New Wave didn't fade in popularity until 1991 when grunge and finally metal invaded. We never understood why American radio was hardly playing it anymore by the mid-'80s when we had three New Wave radio stations to choose from.) If New Wave was supposed to be an underground movement, then how did it die if it merely crawled back beyond mainstream consciousness?

Michael Sutton
Staff Writer: The All-Music Guide
[/quote]




I can relate. I'm from the Philippines.

We have here two new wave radio stations (WXB and Power Station).

Real New Wavers here are the only ones who know real "New Wave Music".

Argueably, these are the top 10 New Wave artists here, not in order (not mine, hehe).
U2, Tears For Fears, Echo & The Bunnymen, Duran Duran, Spandau Ballet, The Cure, Depeche Mode, Morrissey and The Smiths, OMD and Fra Lippo Lippi (does any of you know them?). I think they are more popular here than in their native Norway.

We all enjoyed Shout (TFF 84), Everything Counts (DM 84), Gold (SB 83), Everytime I See You (FLL 85),Two Rivers (The Adventures 86), West End Girls (PSB 85), If You Leave (OMD 85), etc. And we're just getting started.

Later, the 2 stations was off the air, a new "New Wave" station (NU) appeared. It concentrated on New Wave too like The One I Love (REM 87), It's A Sin (PSB 87), Need You Tonight (Inxs 88), Shattered Dreams (Johnny Hates Jazz 88), Bizarre Love Triangle (New Order 87) and The Promise (When In Rome 88).

That was the last set of GOOF New Wave songs here. I know there are other songs, but I don't know how and why I changed or evolved into another music genre which is alternative and heavy metal.

And I agree, it was '91 was the end of it mainly because of lack of good New Wave Songs.


Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars.

[kola]

...that's basically the story of 80's music in a nutshell, as far as i was concerned, esp: the jesus and marychain/sonic youth/VU. that's when i started listening to a lot of darker sounds, totally at odds with what i'd been into before.
i blame "another view" - a velvet underground album of rarities that came out around then, it was such a good record, it blew a lot of synth stuff away.

[General Boy]

I'm actually somewhat surprised that most folks here regard new wave as having extended into the late '80s. I think people make a great case for 1985, or even 1984, but I tend to think of it ending even earlier than that. For some reason, I always see '83 as the true final year of new wave. The sounds were going more mainstream, the technology was become more digital and less warm and personal. Additionally, by '83, many of new wave's most prominent artists had already started genre hopping. And that's also when college alternative rock was starting to emerge, which was a different beast. By '83-'84, new wave as we knew it had splintered off into different directions and subgenres. It just felt and sounded different.

In my opinion, when artists like Bruce Springsteen started to do dance music and use synths prominently, in an effort to fit in, that was pretty much the end.

Oh, and as for the beginning of the movement...I'd argue it goes back further than '78. To the best of my knowledge, artists on Stiff Records were being branded as new wave as early on as '77.

[Frau_Blucher]

I bet a lotta people are with ya General. But I guess some of us are making the Billy Crystal distinction between mostly dead and dead. And my Max's Kansas City LP distinctly says "new wave" on the cover in 1976.